Teaching T-45 turning rejoins

[Carlos Caliente]

Covey launch FTW!

 

[Harrier Dude]

Put your velocity vector on his aircraft, keep the closure between 150 and 200 kts, wait until you're about 1-2 plane widths from impact, then pull hard away. Use braking stop as required (if equipped).

Technique only.

*BTW........this has a high probability of getting you a down and/or killed.

 

[BACONATOR]

Put your velocity vector on his aircraft, keep the closure between 150 and 200 kts, wait until you're about 1-2 plane widths from impact, then pull hard away. Use braking stop as required (if equipped).

Technique only.

*BTW........this has a high probability of getting you a down and/or killed.

150-200kts closure? Nice....

 

[a2b2c3]

Put your velocity vector on his aircraft, keep the closure between 150 and 200 kts, wait until you're about 1-2 plane widths from impact, then pull hard away. Use braking stop as required (if equipped).

Technique only.

*BTW........this has a high probability of getting you a down and/or killed.

Meh, that's when you hit the speed brakes, underrun, and finish by joining up smoothly right on the outside of the turn. Bonus points if you can canopy roll into position.

 

[pilot_man]

I think you all forgot the full boot of rudder for alignment....

 

[scoolbubba]

I scared the shit out of an IP with an unannounced canopy roll to end up in extended trail (cruise form I guess?). He was like "good move, but how bout you wait till I says its ok before you make me shit my pants again."

 

[Ghstrdrvt]

Put your velocity vector on his aircraft, keep the closure between 150 and 200 kts, wait until you're about 1-2 plane widths from impact, then pull hard away. Use braking stop as required (if equipped).

Technique only.

*BTW........this has a high probability of getting you a down and/or killed.

I love that... "Technique Only"... good in all manner of situations.

 

[A4sForever]

I think you all forgot the full boot of rudder for alignment....

Amen ... that's the ticket. It always works and is always an option (skid) to put the brakes on when needed ... a guy that knows how to use rudders will be a better pilot for it.

My instructors NEVER could get me acute and fast enough to not be able to salvage the RDVS w/ a generous application of rudder/aileron and a timely reapplication of power when reacquiring the bearing line.

It works in the FLEET when you want to put the brakes on an expedited RDVS, too ...

 

[A4sForever]

.... When -2 calls "in trail", lead starts a 30deg AOB turn. -2 then works the ABCs - altitude, bearing, & closure. When lead develops line of sight rate change and approaches a given reference point on -2's canopy, -2 overbanks to get on bearing and solve for fuselage alignment while keeping lead on the horizon. Once on bearing, modulate AOB to stay on bearing and keep A/S in the crosscheck to avoid stagnation or an underrun. A few plane widths out, cross under and join up in parade.....

Thanks ... that's what I was looking for ... good to see some things never change.

 

[HackerF15E]

Amen ... that's the ticket. It always works and is always an option (skid) to put the brakes on when needed ... a guy that knows how to use rudders will be a better pilot for it.

"Always"? Not so much...it entirely depends on the aircraft.

Do that in an F-15, and if you have any AOA on the jet you'll depart controlled flight via an outside snap roll. Not a great way to arrest closure.

This is why there is an established procedure if you have too much closure that involves rolling out and overshooting the lead jet's flightpath. I have damn near been killed by student wingmen in the AT-38 that thought they were "too cool" to use the established overshoot procedure, and instead tried to skid their way into controlling their closure.

If you're such a good pilot that you can skid your way into fixing your closure problems, then you're also a good enough pilot to not get into that problem in the first place.

Uh uh....no f*cking way. I have stomped many a student's nuts into oblivion for trying that sh*t. That is how you run airplanes together, which is the ultimate in un-cool.

 

[A4sForever]

"Always"? Not so much...it entirely depends on the aircraft.

Do that in an F-15, and if you have any AOA on the jet you'll depart controlled flight via an outside snap roll. Not a great way to arrest closure.

This is why there is an established procedure if you have too much closure that involves rolling out and overshooting the lead jet's flightpath. I have damn near been killed by student wingmen in the AT-38 that thought they were "too cool" to use the established overshoot procedure, and instead tried to skid their way into controlling their closure.

If you're such a good pilot that you can skid your way into fixing your closure problems, then you're also a good enough pilot to not get into that problem in the first place.

Uh uh....no f*cking way. I have stomped many a student's nuts into oblivion for trying that sh*t. That is how you run airplanes together, which is the ultimate in un-cool.

Of course it depends upon the airplane, Wilbur ...

And as far as 'teachin' it to STUDs -- NO FUCKIN' WAY would I, nor did anyone else 'teach it' to STUDs in my experience ... Orville ...

BUT: I had more than one Instructor -- every swingin' dick a Vietnam Attack/Fighter vet -- pat me on the head, give me beaucoup AA's for the hop ... and say "well done" -- for getting 'it' done.

It's a 'FLEET' thing ... and as far as being 'good enough' (I was/am ) ... sometimes the situation disintegrates to a point wherein YOU have to salvage it and join on someone who's severly fucked up ... or hit ... or low on fuel ... or scared .... and YOU do it through your innate skill & cunning to salvage a less than perfect situation ... rather than following a TRACOM FTI. :sleep_125

 

[SDNalgene]

"Always"? Not so much...it entirely depends on the aircraft.

Do that in an F-15, and if you have any AOA on the jet you'll depart controlled flight via an outside snap roll. Not a great way to arrest closure.

Is that before or after it comes apart in flight for no apparent reason? I kid....

 

[squeeze]

Is that before or after it comes apart in flight for no apparent reason? I kid....

salty talk for someone who's never flown a gray airplane.

 

[FlyingOnFumes]

salty talk for someone who's never flown a gray airplane.

I think he's referring to the F-15Cs with the forward bulkhead defect... but even so, public reports said that it didn't apply to the F-15E, which is what it appears that Hacker flies and, therefore, irrelevant.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I think he's referring to the F-15Cs with the forward bulkhead defect... but even so, public reports said that it didn't apply to the F-15E, which is what it appears that Hacker flies and, therefore, irrelevant.

It doen't matter which model he's referring to. I got the F-15C reference.

Don't talk shit about other people's ride until you have one yourself.

Just a rule of thumb.