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- Thread starter Punk
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It's an old-fashioned A-6 "iron bombsight" ... And it's mine ...FlyingFortress said:
I take it this is an F or a G model? Or maybe that's not even a HUD...
Mil settings wheel on the left and all that. It was essentially the same for the A-6A/B/C/D/E models. It also gave rudimentary attack information through the B/N's system --- but it only started to become relatively "meaningful" with the early E models and follow-on attack system modifications. 
Brett327 said:
Oh yee of little faith:
Grumman A-6F Intruder
The A-6F Intruder was to have been an advanced version of the A-6E, initially known as the A-6E Upgrade. A contract was issued in July 1984, and it was anticipated that the A-6F would be the principal medium attack aircraft in the Fleet in the 1990s. The A-6E Upgrade was to have been virtually a new design, using most of the components of the A-6E but with a new radar, a digital avionics suite, improved engines, the epoxy /composite Boeing wing, and additional weapons stations.
The plane was to have been powered by a pair of General Electric F404-GE-400D turbofans, which were to be smokeless. An third offensive weapons rack was to be added underneath each wing. A new Norden synthetic aperture radar (sometimes known as AN/APQ-173) was to be fitted, and the aircraft was to be capable of carrying the AIM-120A AMRAAM air-to-air missile, which would have given the Intruder an air-to-air capability. The cockpit instrumentation was to be wholly new, with digital instruments being added and multifunction displays provided that were all driven by an AYX-14 computer. The AN/APN-153 Doppler radar was to be replaced by a Collins GPS system. The AN/ALQ-165 Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ) was to be fitted. Externally, the A-6F would differ by having an additional dorsal scoop for cooling air.
Five full-scale development A-6Fs were ordered. They were diverted from a batch of A-6Es (BuNos 162183/162187), and were known as "Intruder II". They were fitted with Grumman metal wings, since the Boeing composite wings were not yet ready. BuNo 163183 was the aerodynamic and propulsion test vehicle and flew for the first time on August 26, 1987, with Harry Hentx and Dave Goulette at the controls. BuNo 162184 followed on November 23. 162185 was the Digital Systems Development aircraft and was used as the test bed for the AN/APQ-173 radar and other advanced avionics systems, and flew for the first time on August 22, 1988. However, by this time, the A-6F project had been cancelled, and the last two A-6Fs had already been mothballed without being flown. Budgetary constraints were cited as the reason for the cancellation, but the real reason was probably the existence of the Advanced Tactical Aircraft (ATA) stealth attack aircraft project which was currently under development as the A-12 and which was still secret at the time. Unfortunately, the A-12 project was itself cancelled by Seceretary of Defense Dick Cheney on January 7, 1991. Mismanagement and delays were cited as the reasons.
Grumman A-6G Intruder
The A-6G Intruder was to have been a less expensive alternative to the A-6F, which had been cancelled in 1988. It had most of the A-6Fs improvements but not the General Electric F404-GE-400D turbofans.
The third A-6F (BuNo 162185) was kept flying to in support of the A-6G, but no production was undertaken.
A4sForever said:It's an old-fashioned A-6 "iron bombsight" ... And it's mine ...
With the last OFP update, the moveable reticle of the gunsight could be put in a velocity vector mode when it was not being used for steering or attack information.
Simply put ... the A-6F would have been the finest carrier-based attack aircraft ever fielded by us or any other country, bar none. There has been a 10 year gap with nothing to step in and replace it until the advent of the Super Hornet. She was ugly, but sweet ....
A4sForever said:That's really weak ..... but (kind of ....) true.
I don't fly the ball anymore, obviously, but I try to keep my "waving hand in" on the technology ... what a great system improvement IFLOS is over the older systems. The 12 fiber optic cells will give you glide slope information at about twice the sensitivity as the older F(resnel)LOLS. With the IFLOLS's greater definition, it is now possible to accurately get a good visual reference on the lens as far out as about a mile behind the ship --- 3/4 of a mile used to be stretching it --- tough to do without radar-like eyesight back-in-the-day. Plus, the older lenses would "bloom" too much if cranked up to give greater intensity, thus losing definition in relation to the datums. IFLOLS, coupled with the Long Range Line-up System (LRLS) take much of the guesswork and "sport" out of landing on USS BOAT these days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are now aboard all the big decks and some fields ..... I don't know about Marine-friendly smaller decks.
Improved Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System (IFLOLS)
IFLOLS together with LRLS are such an improvement over what we had to work with ... you guys are lucky. And I'd rather be lucky than good any day ..... so if you're BOTH --- you've got it made!
IFLOLS is nice. I was lucky enough to have it on my last crusie, as well as LRLS--big improvements.
One downside of IFLOLS (about the only I can think of) is that even with just a little deck motion (talking 4-5 feet), the 'ball' would quickly get out of sequence with/get behind (right terminology?) the deck movement. Was not an LSO so I can't speak to the particulars, but I believe it has to do with how much more sensitive IFLOLS is over the older OLS. I can remember seeing significantly larger deck motion on the older Fresnel Lens prior to Paddles taking the ball away.
Just one observation,
scab
A4,
I keep forgetting "B" means flat. I had quite a few "BAR" at the field, but we had almost no winds. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
At the boat was a different story. Maybe this is wrong, but I qual'd with it, and got a damn good GPA for the training command, I kept the ball atleast 2 balls high. I didn't go out trying to fly OK, centered ball passes, just trying to keeping it on the high side so I could avoid fly through downs and then net me a no grade. My ball control was fine though, I was able to keep it pretty much exactly where I wanted it, especially after halfway through the CQ. Our LSO's told us that we had no problem stabilizing the ball, but we liked to stabilize it high. And that's what I did, can I do it for a centered ball, I'm sure I can. But I didn't want to risk it and get a no grade when I didn't catch the settling ball.
I know the fleet is different, and the only place to be is centered, but I didn't have any grandeur of being a fleet ball flyer on my first CQ, so I didn't try it that way.
Anywho, I am putting serious considering to LSO. I think it would neat, difficult, and very rewarding. My sister squadron skipper (ex A-6/EA-6b driver) also mentioned that an almost sure way to find myself into the Growler transition would be to become a tactics pilot (I forgot the exact term he used, but it involved tactics, only 1 or 2 pilots like that in a squadron). Right now, I don't know enough about anything to make an educated decision. But he said, either way I go, I need to be banging on the door cause they won't give either of those slots out unless you're very adament about doing it.
So much to learn, so little time.
The Quag
I keep forgetting "B" means flat. I had quite a few "BAR" at the field, but we had almost no winds. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
At the boat was a different story. Maybe this is wrong, but I qual'd with it, and got a damn good GPA for the training command, I kept the ball atleast 2 balls high. I didn't go out trying to fly OK, centered ball passes, just trying to keeping it on the high side so I could avoid fly through downs and then net me a no grade. My ball control was fine though, I was able to keep it pretty much exactly where I wanted it, especially after halfway through the CQ. Our LSO's told us that we had no problem stabilizing the ball, but we liked to stabilize it high. And that's what I did, can I do it for a centered ball, I'm sure I can. But I didn't want to risk it and get a no grade when I didn't catch the settling ball.
I know the fleet is different, and the only place to be is centered, but I didn't have any grandeur of being a fleet ball flyer on my first CQ, so I didn't try it that way.
Anywho, I am putting serious considering to LSO. I think it would neat, difficult, and very rewarding. My sister squadron skipper (ex A-6/EA-6b driver) also mentioned that an almost sure way to find myself into the Growler transition would be to become a tactics pilot (I forgot the exact term he used, but it involved tactics, only 1 or 2 pilots like that in a squadron). Right now, I don't know enough about anything to make an educated decision. But he said, either way I go, I need to be banging on the door cause they won't give either of those slots out unless you're very adament about doing it.
So much to learn, so little time.
The Quag
I can't speak for other communities, but LSO isn't something you get to choose. The RAG in coordination with your ultimate fleet squadron will choose for you. As for "tactics pilots" we call them PTIs (Prowler Tactics Instructors) - Prowler version of Top Gun. There are usually only one, maybe two per squadron, and more often than not, they're gonna be ECMOs. Now, I wouldn't go as far as to say that pilot PTIs are rare, but I would guess 7 of 8 are ECMOs. Welcome to ECMO-centrism. Having said that, if you work your @ss off and the timing is right, it can open lots of doors for you (as you eluded). All the G model FIT team guys are PTIs and they have billets for 2 pilots and 2 ECMOs at the Rhino RAG in Lemoore as RAG instructors. You'll figure all this stuff out once you get to your squadron, but if that's what you're shooting for, then establish a rep as a hard charger, get into the ECMO side of stuff, then let your squadron PTI and front office know that that is what you want to do.Punk said:
Brett
Well, since you offered the information and explanation ...... I hate to burst your bubble, and this is offered as constructive criticism, but the above performance would have got you about 2 looks while doing your touch & go's on my deck, and the third time (after talking to you on the radio) that you rolled into the groove high --- and "kept it there" .... you would have got WAVEed OFF and got another chance to think about it on the downwind leg (after talking to you on the radio) ..... and the FOURTH PASS (??) .....Punk said:
If you did it again (as you describe), you would have got WAVED OFF and Bingo'ed to the beach. One more chance the next day after a ship-to-shore conversation with you that night .... and if the second day was a repeat --- DISQUAL. Period. See .... I wouldn't have let you go to the ship if that was what you did at the field. And if you didn't do it at the field --- why in the hell would I let you do it at the ship (??) --- especially since you're new and don't have ANY experience to fall back on .....
I don't know what kind of LSO's are in the TRACOM these days, but that would not have cut it for initial CQ or most certainly not in the Fleet with any LSO in my experience. At least, not with the good ones, and certainly not with me. Flying the ball is at least 75% mental and discipline --- accepting a "high" ball is just not good enough. And as for not wanting to "fly through", whatever the hell that means .... you're not good enough to "place" the ball. You probably won't ever be good enough. That's why the ONLY safe answer is a centered ball. Accidents happen when pilots "do it their way" (especially rookies --- we won't even discuss rookies --- there's no point in it) and with LSO's that let them get away with it. They were not doing you a favor. The ONLY reason an LSO would do that is because they are uncertain of themselves or just not very good. Period, once again.
If your ball control was "fine though", then why couldn't you fly a centered ball, instead of a HCDAW pass? ..... Case closed.
If you ever want to be an LSO, you need to change your attitude towards flying at the ship (granted, you are still inexperienced and young). Sooner would be better than later ..... and I know, I know, I ain't your Daddy .... but I'm just trying to help ... you can take it or leave it. What am I gonna do??? Kick you off my 747 ??? I'm not ragging on you, but I know what I'm talking about. I like the Boat and I like guys who want to fly there. But "doing it your way" is going to cause you grief later .....
.... 
A4,A4sForever said:
The only reason I say this is due to the fact I had a Nugget just about kill me behind the boat. He started 2 balls high and pulled the power, LSO Yelled POWER a split second before I did and we saw 2+ balls LOW (Yellow/Red). Thank god for the dutch roll/pitching deck...we got the taxi one wire.....BTW, the Squadron LSO chewed on him for about an hour.
ea6bflyr
What Punk described is standard practice in the TRACOM. We're instructed to keep it "one ball high". Their reasoning is that with a centered ball, you don't know where in the visual cone you're located (ie. at the start to in the middle). You could have too much ROD and be located at the top of the cone (with a centered ball) but as the cone gets smaller from in the middle to in close at the ramp this excessive ROD will have you quickly going low. Now, if you fly one ball high, you know exactly where you are in this cone and can effectively "dribble" (like a basketball) the ball all the way to the deck (because you are more stabilized). (HAW) grades are sh!thot for a TRACOM stud. Missed top hook by .04
jboomer said:
Yep, that explains it pretty well. Plenty of times during workups I started with a centered ball till IC when the thing would start to drop out on me. I was getting pretty aggravated and didn't know why until my LSO explained exactly what jboomer just said. He then told be to start with the ball alittle high and keep it there and bounce the ball off the datums.
Our LSO's told us, just keep the ball on the happy side and you'll be fine. That's what we practiced, that's what we did, that's what the LSO's in TRACOM are teaching these days.
First congrats to all you guys for Quallifying at the boat.jboomer said:
I'd always advise listening to paddles--no better source for info; however, Punk mentioned flying two balls high.
Had alarm bells going off in my head. I can only speak to the Prowler (and only as a plat LSO): its an easy plane to bolter in at the boat, esp if you get flat/(fast) AR, a common tendency. Have seen many young guys (OK, did it myself and scared the crap out of me), after having some problems with boarding rate, fly a full high InClose and then try to make too large of a power correction to bring the ball down At the Ramp, catching it too late, and then watching the super-sonic sunset with both throttles at Mil and taxiing into the one.
I'm all for crester/centered "bouncing ball off of datums" approach, and if it gets below the datums, push it up, and if necessary take the bolter like a man. Much safer. Accepting a full high all the way....
just my .02,
scab
So... you are taught one way and are expected to perfect another? Or has the actual method of approach changed entirely? Why can't you be sure of where you are if the ball is centered, but you can if its high? This is fascinating to me, but I don't understand some of the language/terms used.