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Standby for more trouble with the airlines?
- Thread starter Kickflip89
- Start date
There's no "good" reason to "cut seniority" ... 'cause if one did that in ANY "profession" (you may insert businessman, doctor, lawyer, teacher, scientist, Naval Aviator, Squadron CO, et'al here), the profession would die as there would be NO REASON on God's green earth for you to prepare, study, train, compete, and perform if you could be replaced ... tomorrow ... by the latest, greatest graduate from Podunk Flying Academy or the Olathe, Kansas School of Brain Surgery ....
Francisco A. "Frank" Lorenzo tried it at more than one airline ... didn't work too well for him ...
What I might suggest is FIRING people who don't do their jobs -- and I have -- seniority or no. That's where ironclad, protectionist, tenured "seniority" and I part company ...
Didn't think of it in those terms.
I really wish they would fire people who aren't doing their jobs.
Isn't it a bit early in the morning to start drinking the koolaid?
Man it's never to early to drink the kool-aid. As long as it's American.
ACTUALLY .... this stuff (see link below) concerns me more than a couple of MD-80's flying around w/ an inop A/P system that in reality comes down to a disagreement between the FEDs and the airline over the MEL list ....
No airborne fuel is available in the airline game ... you go w/ what you've got. It's always been the Captain's decision regarding the bottom line fuel quantity required to fly the given route --- but the industry bean counters are putting pressure on the pilots. And the gutless FAA bureaucracy is going right along ....
LINK: [FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Pilots complain airlines restrict fuel to cut cost[/FONT]
No airborne fuel is available in the airline game ... you go w/ what you've got. It's always been the Captain's decision regarding the bottom line fuel quantity required to fly the given route --- but the industry bean counters are putting pressure on the pilots. And the gutless FAA bureaucracy is going right along ....
LINK: [FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Pilots complain airlines restrict fuel to cut cost[/FONT]
Yup, must be careful here. I remember years ago Continental almost landing gear up because the Captain wanted to hold the gear until the last moment to save gas and earn a cash bonus. My company has tried to pare down the arrival fuel. For those that don't know, unnecessary fuel carried by an airliner is heavy. It takes gas to carry excess gas. Of course what is considered unnecessary depends whether you are the Captain strapping into the machine or some guy with a cup of coffee sitting at a desk. Fortunately, efforts at my company have not been outrageous and the dispatchers have been great. They dutifully calculate fuel required per company instruction and then find excuses to add a little. 500lbs for turbulance, 500lbs for arrival delays. If a Captain still wants more he calls the dispatcher and tells him what he wants. I have never seen a dispatcher get in a pissing contest over fuel requests. Still we are saving gas. Bottom line, Captains call the shots and can not be made to fly a plane they aren't comfortable with.
Lazers - AA did not go into bankruptcy because people like Wink took one hell of a pay cut to keep it out. Now AA is reneging on their promise to make it right in the future.
Wink - APA is fighting one hell of a good fight. Keep it up. You're making us ALPA guys look like pussies.
Wink - APA is fighting one hell of a good fight. Keep it up. You're making us ALPA guys look like pussies.
Roger that: and one other thing I've noticed over the years -- guys tend to "exaggerate" their FAE's as they want everyone to think of them as being 'successful' -- even when their pay scales are public and printed for all to see and everyone know what everyone else is making ...
One thing I CAN say w/ a straight face is that I only make 60% of what I used to in the "glory days".
Oh, wait .... a small detail: I don't have to go to work anymore to get it ...
Youth is wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old. Is there any way I can get my retirement now on credit and work when I'm old?
Unfortunately, the concept of "merit" is entirely subjective.
That means that pilots who have to make the safe -- but unpopular -- calls would be penalized because their decision "wasn't good for the company".
That would mean that the guys who cut corners, sucked up to bosses, etc did advance to higher jobs with higher pay.
Given the unique nature of the pilot biz, seniority is really the only fair way to do it.
Yea certainly for pilots. But for other workers. Like mechanics it easier to measure their merit.
Isn't that the way it's done now ... and always has been???
I'm confused.
I thought it worked like this:
Johnny breaks out of the regionals and goes and flies for Major Carrier X, makes his way up the seniority list with X. Now, let's say he's unhappy with something and wants to fly for Major Carrier Y, but instead of transferring into a similar level (salary?) at Y, he starts over at the bottom of the list.
Yep, that's correct.
You've got it right -- so what's the question?? Perhaps I'm not getting the basis for your confusion.
Without "seniority" the profession of airline pilot -- as we know it -- dies ... which is exactly what airline management(s) would like. It would become a buyers' market w/ the companies "buying" bodies to fly their birds cheaper than the last guy to occupy the cockpit seat -- and the companies will ALWAYS go w/ the cheapest bidder if they can ... i.e., the lowest, least experienced guy on the totem pole; the guy who will "do anything" to get into that cockpit seat.
Why would anyone -- let's say Pilot A -- whore themselves out at any cost to get that airline seat?? 'Cause Pilot A eventually wants that next "better seat" in the cockpit; he wants to move up in the profession. But Pilot A will never get it w/out "seniority" -- 'cause some more junior Pilot B -- i.e., the next "cheaper" guy in line -- will get it as pilot A acquires .... seniority.
No seniority = no tenure = no experience = no advanced technical skills = no career "rewards" (derived from seniority) for past performance and loyalty = no job protection from predatory management(s) = no career.
This is nothing peculiar to the airline industry. As a result: "no seniority"??? That's not the way ANY "professional" airline works ....
Sheesh. Some of you guys ....
Please correct me, because I sense I'm wrong here, but what confuses me is why some airlines choose to use only union pilots and others (i.e. JetBlue/Southwest, etc) can get away with having none. If there are so many pilots willing to work with non-unionized airlines, what keeps the major airlines from hiring union? With seniority yielding tenure in the airlines, how much does a pilot have to fvck up before he is fired? I understand that it's difficult to measure pilots' by merit, but how often does seniority get in the way of a crappy pilot keeping his job?
Edit: As a side note, I assume that the non-union airlines get away with paying their pilots significantly less.
Edit: As a side note, I assume that the non-union airlines get away with paying their pilots significantly less.
