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Spare the rod, spoil the child (child-rearing tips for aviators)

rgfh2003

Member
Crumb crunches..squid..jarhead..same thing... it's not a kind thing to say. People say it...it is shrugged off. I rarely come to the public forum specifically for this reason.

I mentioned this post to one of the gals I saw today who works with Fleet and Family Service and she says she refuses to go to this website because of rude and unnecessary remarks. I'm on here for the PRIVATE spouses corner as a resource, but this thread did catch my eye. This is one area that I do get my hackles up... Mess with innocent kids and shame on you.

And no. I do not expect anyone to go out of their way.

Simply put: TOLERANCE.
 

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
Crumb crunches..squid..jarhead..same thing... it's not a kind thing to say. People say it...it is shrugged off.
To the active duty squid , jarhead are terms of endearment, so is crumb crunchers. Maybe you should lighten up just a bit. :icon_wink
 

rgfh2003

Member
AlphaEcho606...I was just making a point. My passion is for my kids. I don't know you, or anyone on here other than a few wives from PSC - but it'd be thoughless for me to go bashing on various services, different kinds of pilots etc. (Yes, I'm fully aware that I have no justification!...Just making a point!) As you take pride in your work, I take pride in caring for my kids and giving them the best life and upbringing I can provide.

I'm done. I'm fighting an uphill battle. I don't even think that some of you all even understand the POINT I'm trying to make:

Don't be mean to the kids, it's not their fault.

I know there are some of you who are considerate and thoughtful....Thank you. There are others that could care less. All I can say is: "It's life. Deal with it."
 

MrsPickle

MIT- Manatee In Training
Contributor
Ma'am, if that took you all the way to mild insulted...maybe this forum ain't the place to be lurkin' about...

And yea, we are a self righteous, self centered bunch of ass clowns. But that doesn't necessarily make me wrong when I don't feel like dodging someone else's kids at an adult event, or when they are going nuts in a store, or at a ball game/movie/etc.
I have to say that I DO take the little Pickles to the store (stay away from the Oakleaf Plantation Publix! That's where we shop! :eek:). I do try and keep them in line, but they are 2 1/2 and 8 months.

I will say that I don't take them to squadron functions for several reasons. One of which is that I cannot have a good time, if I'm in "mommy mode." I also don't think that most of the stories/jokes/gestures are appropriate for the little pickles (and look at their father!!)

Just because you have curtain climbers doesn't mean the world bends to their will.
I will agree to that. There have been countless times that I have looked at other peoples' children and thought, "Good GOD take that child home!" If my child annoys someone else (say... at the grocery store), I usually apologize profusely. I'm not feeling guilty, I understand that they shouldn't have to listen to Pickle Jr's tantrum over KitKats.

By and large, I get a little bit of slack for having such young kids. Even the single sailors think Pickle Jr is pretty cool (except when he calls them dad... dammit! not all guys in flight suits are dad!).

I've learned that a little tolerance and a huge sense of humor will get you a long way in the military life. Oh yeah, and laying the smack down once in awhile (which I am very good at doing... just ask Pickle and his classmates).
:D

Nothing said here was in disrespect (unlike another thread going this weekend... :icon_rage). Sense of humor... thick skin...

Nuff said!
 

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
AlphaEcho606...I was just making a point. My passion is for my kids. I don't know you, or anyone on here other than a few wives from PSC - but it'd be thoughless for me to go bashing on various services, different kinds of pilots etc. (Yes, I'm fully aware that I have no justification!...Just making a point!) As you take pride in your work, I take pride in caring for my kids and giving them the best life and upbringing I can provide.

I'm done. I'm fighting an uphill battle. I don't even think that some of you all even understand the POINT I'm trying to make:

Don't be mean to the kids, it's not their fault.

I know there are some of you who are considerate and thoughtful....Thank you. There are others that could care less. All I can say is: "It's life. Deal with it."
I'm not dissing kids, I think they are great for those who want them and know how to care for them. I do agree with Master for his thoughts though, if a parent can't control or doesn't know when the kids are misbehaving, then there is a problem. I know and realize that many things factor in to a childs life, but some parents just don't give a SH**! It's those parents and kids that I have a problem with! If a parent is unable to control their child, they need to seek help. In my opinion, way too many YOUNG ADULTS have children that are unable or unwilling to care for them.

I'm glad to hear that you love and care for your children, it's just that so many DO NOT!

Rant over. :)
 

smittyrunr

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Yes, having kids at adult functions is inconvienent....

It isn't about "inconvenient"... maybe having screaming kids at the comissary is inconvenient, at some squadron functions it is inappropriate to have children there. Sure, they may be "legally" allowed to be there....
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Don't be mean to the kids, it's not their fault.

To paraphrase the late, great George Carlin and Bill hicks:

People are always saying "save the children, what about the children, protect the children!". You know what I say? "FUCK the children" Your children are NOT special. Kids are just like adults: a couple of winners and a WHOLE lot of LOSERS.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I know YOU think they're special. I'm just here to tell you: They're NOT.

People are always talking about the miracle of childbirth. Millions of sperm swimming their way to penetrate the egg and create a growing fetus.All it takes is one. And this one sperm out of those millions made it. GEE. What are the fucking odds?

Sorry. I am too lazy to look up the exact quotes from the above routine's but it's the gist of it. I know some people are highly sensitive about their kids or whatever. You need to lighten up. I'm sure kids are great, and I love being an uncle and such, but get over it. Kids aren't that special and aren't entitled to the world for just falling out of the womb. Sometimes, you just need to leave your kids at home. For example... at seville last night. I really don't think those kids needed to be there while I was busy getting drunk.

Be a responsible parent, please.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
I'm mild-insulted by the term crumb-crunchers, and a bunch of holier than thou comments.....

Get thicker skin. Or stay away from the big boys club.


If that is true...don't you think as a Navy or Marine Corps Officer (or soon to be) you should be held to a higher standard? You aren't Joe Schmoe on the corner cursing at Moms (or Dads for that matter) with their kids while they run basic errands. People look up to you. They TRUST you whether you deserve it or not.

A- You are reading way too much into this.
B- What is a "higher standard" have to do with the fact that YOUR children may be the ones annoying me in the commissary.

From the Navy creed: "I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all."
From the Marine Corps Prayer: "Help me to wear my uniform with dignity, and let it remind me daily of the traditions which I must uphold."

Where in here does it state "must deal with out of control children where they should not be". Bringing kids to events where it is not appropriate is not fair to everyone else there.

So are you one of those parents that bring their kids to a winging party (the late at night one, not the one right after the ceremony) then get all pissy when I have to yell at them to stay the hell away from the KingKat because little Bobby and Susie are too stupid to listen when I say "go over there" nicely and they get in the way of large moving spring propelled objects?
 

GO_AV8_DevilDog

Round 2...
Contributor
.. Mess with innocent kids and shame on you.

istockphoto_346940_senior_shame_on_you.jpg



There are things that you do, and spouting back a creed or prayer into some ones face that YOU are not part of, is not one of them.:icon_rage

Really, If you get that worked up about some people complaining about their experiences at a grocery store than you really need to just unplug your computer and sell it.

Also, it is generally in good practice NOT to tell people what "prayers" apply to them. JFYI
 

Fred

Registered User
I'm mild-insulted by the term crumb-crunchers, but yes. I do feel like I have to rebuttle.

I think it really depends on the context. Our kids have been referred to as brats, crumb crunchers, curtain climbers, linoleum lizards, etc., since birth by my husband’s parents. They are Old school Navy. Plus, the fact of the matter is.....they have crunched their fair share of crumbs, at least two got caught climbing curtains, and they all learned to crawl on Navy issues linoleum. ;) I wouldn’t get too offended by nick names for kids.

Our family is at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to "Officer-land" - but there are higher ranking, COs, XOs and the like that have young children too.

I don’t feel rank or position gives anyone a “free pass” when it comes to brining kids to inappropriate functions. (not talking about the commissary) If anything, those in leadership positions or who have spouses in leadership positions should be the ones setting the good example of when it’s not appropriate to bring kids. We’ve been fortunate over the years and sans one CO, I can’t think of any others my husband has had who brought their kids to things that were not child friendly.

I know several squadron XO/CO's and a few carrier XO's who have very young kids. My daughters make a mint off of sitting for some of them. ;)
 

MAKE VAPES

Uncle Pettibone
pilot
The dude that bought my house in Meridian went through the same with his boy, leukemia... still battling... the dad just got half de-nutted due to doo-dad cancer... WTF.

I haven't flown with my twin 3.5 yo boys.

Im scared shitless someone will tell me to shut them up after Ive already done everything but gag them to keep them quiet so folks can fly in peace.

I would unleash an ass beating of biblical proportions after extending such an effort on the perpetrator(s) of said shitty little comments... I always make it a point to compliment parents on airplanes who try really hard or the kiddos who do very well.

I take my dudes to the commissary, they act like little assholes sometimes, and they get the same threatening looks, pinches, flicks and swats on the ass (when the tree hugging moms aren't looking) I got as a little asshole in my day.

Bottom line... not to turn this into a blubbering sob story...but,
Ive done a ton of incredibly cool things by the majority of the population's standards, My boys are the most incredible thing that has ever happened to me... They are harder to deal with sometimes than single engine at night in an F-14A with the Bidirectional Pump Failing and a RIO who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. They are funner than dropping eggs, funner than flying way too low with the wings pinned back to keep them out of the water in turns, funner than kicking some Top Gun douches ass. Funner than slamming the port O3 p-way door into the bulkhead by my CO's head at 3am (and running away giggling like a school girl), funner than any hangover I worked so hard to get around the world.

I know folks want to choke little assholes in the commissary, and their parents too.

Take notes, when you have little crumbsnatchers do better!
 

FMRAM

Combating TIP training AGAIN?!
Crumb crunches..squid..jarhead..same thing... it's not a kind thing to say. People say it...it is shrugged off. I rarely come to the public forum specifically for this reason.

I mentioned this post to one of the gals I saw today who works with Fleet and Family Service and she says she refuses to go to this website because of rude and unnecessary remarks. I'm on here for the PRIVATE spouses corner as a resource, but this thread did catch my eye. This is one area that I do get my hackles up... Mess with innocent kids and shame on you.

And no. I do not expect anyone to go out of their way.

Simply put: TOLERANCE.

Tolerance goes both ways there Ma'am. Some of us nay many of us don't want children. This may seem selfish to you but I assure you its not. Please don't tell me that I don't know what the military is all about. If you have anymore rants about the big meanies on this forum I would ask that you please keep it in the private spouses forum where it belongs. :)
 

propwife

Witty User Title Goes Here
Personally, I am with Fred and Mrs. Pickle..

I have never brought my children to any event that was intended for adults only.
e.g. Squadron Christmas Parties.

... the squadron communities that my husband came from and are currently in offer both CHILDREN's parties and one that is adult themed. Working as an Ombudsman and coordinating FRG, I am ultra sensitive to the specific needs that some families have. With that said, there is a time and place for children.. Though I've never been intoxicated a day in my life (nor plan to.. so you won't see me at Whitey's downing shots and dancing on tables..) .. I recognize that is not the overall theme of the night. Aside from alcohol, there are particular functions that are plain and simple dress events or not appropriate for children for the mere enjoyment of the mass majority that RSVP's with the understanding that is an adult's night out.

The men on this board mean no sincere malice. It's doubtful that the single young bucks or old school guys are out there spewing verbal assaults. While their coined terms are perhaps - not necessary, this is a place to decompress.. and should be taken with a grain of salt.

In fact, a few of them were probably the very same young buds that uttered 'Awwwwww' (frozen hearts melting) when they saw our little sprig running around in his flight suit and jacket. I know Mr. Propwife always has a story to tell about his mini me (e.g. catching his first catfish this past weekend!) While kids aren't in everyone's plans.. I think these guys are just experiencing frustrations that even us doting mothers have had while out and about.
 

rgfh2003

Member
Fred:
That's great you are able to get a baby-sitter. I hate grocery shopping, and I go once a week for 30 mins with all 3 kids after their tummies are full, the store isn't busy (right after breakfast). I doubt I've encountered any of you since the store is usually empty and my kids are generally well-behaved.

I've been experiencing military life for 8 years, married 5 and some, and have 3 kids - so I'm not GREEN, but I definately don't have tons of experience. I'm not trying to fight and say that kids should be welcomed at adult functions. What I saying is that for those that do not have good judgement to leave kids home when they would need to sit still/be quiet for any amount of time/there will be drinking - maybe some people on here should learn some tolerance. Yes, it is inconsiderate...but it will happen, and we don't we ALL need to have thick skin, a sense of humor and tolerance as so many have eluded too? :)

I also don't think that having a husband or wife with a "high" rank should allow for irresponsible parenting. I do take issue with the ridiculousness I've witnessed and experienced over the years. The commissary for example :) An enlisted dependant goes in with her young kids and there are daggers pointed in her direction. An officer dependant, "Let me hold the door for you ma'am"... I've been on both sides. It makes me mad. We as dependants do NOT hold rank. That being said, why is there such a difference? I got my college degree well before my husband earned his - nothing has changed, but now my ID has an O-rank rather than an E-rank and my car has a blue sticker. R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S.

p3wife:
I think you said it perfectly. Most Moms when they have their kids with them are in "Mommy Mode". I can NOT imagine any Mom truly wanting to bring their children with them to any function. Maybe as a wife w/experience it is up to us to suggest childcare for the next occassion? I've seen one strange situation in 8 years. I saw a child brought into a Marine Ball that I thought was inappropriate. The parents did not have a sitter, they sat in the corner, and he was strapped in a stroller. When he began to make noises, his parents left. Life happens. Give them dirty looks? How will that help? Suggest a baby-sitter to a stranger? If I knew them, I would have...I just dealt with it. I felt they handled the situation they put themselves in well.

I agree tolerance and sense of humor do get you through military life. I don't do the smackdown, unless you consider this is smackdown. I hardly think that this would be considered such.

"Thick skin...sense of humor"...I personally find it hard to find one if someone types: "I know YOU think they're special. I'm just here to tell you: They're NOT." That courtesy of OttoWrote8. I do give him the benefit of the doubt as he's probably hating life at WP with the zillion of kids running around. We lived there - and yes, some of the kids drove me bonkers there. I'll just assume that he has had some rough times at WP. I do realize most likely he's single, young and as he admits life is about him. That's where he is in life. Hopefully he'll grow.

smittyrunr: Yes, I do agree. I do wish that some parents had better judgement, but honestly, what can you do? Are you going to go up and tell them, "Your kid isn't allowed to be here?" Avoid the kids, get extremely drunk, or leave, you do have a choice. If you are able to force people to do what you want - you'll rule the world!

OttoWrote8: You're right. Responsiblity is key. What good is it to be rude and mean? You don't like kids, that's fine. I see you're living at WP. Good thing you weren't our neighbor. We lived on a street filled with kids - 16 - all under the age of 10. Student's, IP's and the XO's...Hope you were put in the "singles area". All the best. As you continue throughout your career, there will be more and more kids - especially if you happen to live in base housing.

MasterBates: "Big Boys Club" This is the SPOUSES corner. It is NOT the private spouses corner, but it is the spouses corner. Why are the "big boys" in the spouses corner? I agree that in the PSC there have been a few comments that have been extremely helpful by men...I don't see all that many wives coming out of the woodwork to get onto threads about Naval aviation training to make suggestions...Hmm.

"Where in here does it state "must deal with out of control children where they should not be"." - Why must you deal with them? You can: A. Ignore them. B. Avoid them. C. Leave. If for some crazy reason you are unable to any of those, and they find you irrisistable so they are hanging around you - KEEP MOVING AWAY. If you trip over one. Oops. Both of you learned a lesson. If one runs into you...get some napkins and clean yourself and the floor up from the spilt beer. I am not saying that it's not annoying when it's inappropriate to have young children milling about - but seriously...from what I've seen, most guys are so wasted the next morning after a winging party - why worry about a random kid? Why not enjoy the band, the booze, or your friends?

No, I personally do not know of any families that allow their children to attend either winging parties, and no - I don't bring mine.

GoAV8DevilDog: My husband and I got a good laugh over your picture. Thanks. However, if you attempt to tell me that I am not apart of the military...it's true. It was my choice to get married to my husband, and it is my choice to remain with my husband... I have no contract to the government. he does. But please don't suggest you know more than I when you are 21, not yet a Marine, a junior in college, unmarried and without children. If you ever get married..your wife is committing to the Corps as well. We don't have a contract with the government, but we are in a commitment to our spouses. Just as there is cameraderie with your peers, the spouses have it with our peers as well. We are there to support our husbands/wives. If you are in a committed marriage, then YES, there is an indirect contract with the Marine Corps, as am I.

I'm sorry that you feel that I'm not entitled to remind people of creeds or prayers that were taken/have been said. Just as I said it, you're entitled to feel that I'm not allowed to bring it up.

I'm fully aware that it's "in good practice NOT to tell people what "prayers" apply to them" However, all the atheists, and non-Christians would jump all over that and someone would have a retort now wouldn't they? I was attempting to eliminate some of the fuss.

MakesVapes: I get the non-flying thing. Our last flight was to Jamaica with our kids to a FAMILY resort and it was rough the last leg returning home. We did everything in our will power to try to calm them down but they were exhausted and had no idea what was gonig on. They were both under 3. Let's just say we drive, and we aren't planning another BEACHES vacation until the youngest doesn't have to nap during the day anymore. :)

FMRAM: I'm glad that so many people do not want kids now, or ever! Someone who is not wanting children should NOT have them...Yes, tolerance does go both way, as does respect. As I mentioned earlier...this is the spouses corner, and some guy without kids, most likely unmarried is giving unsolicted advice about child-rearing. The thread title was: "Tips on Child-Rearing..." Something like that right? :) Now all these young, (some) unmarried, childless guys feel that they know what is best for other families or parenting in general? Just as most of the spouses I know stick to what they know..maybe they should too? :)

The PSC is not for ranting...it's a resource for me, and to others - advice and updates on what is going on in their life. I am going to assume from your post that you don't want kids, that's great! Some people may think that there is no life after children...and you're entitled to feel that way! However, I enjoy my life as a family. When I was referring to "not knowing about military life" I meant from a SAHM's perspective. Apologies for that offense. If I were to count on my husband being here on weekly basis so I could go grocery shopping by myself - jeez louise I'd do it! Maybe some military families have it great - I however don't have that luxury. I took on the role as supportive wife and mom. I do it all, minus his school, studying, and flying. I'm not whining, it's where my life has me at this moment, and it's just a chapter of my life. Right now, it is about SUPPORTING him. He sees how much I do and in return he helps out whenever possible, however classes may run late, he may need to meet with someone, flights are delayed, study groups, guy time...I'm sure you all relate to the hectic work schedule/obligations.

Propwife: I'm glad that you are able to recognize that there is a time and place for children. I think it's important for the gentlemen on this forum to also realize that although it may not seem "child appropriate" to them, they might have not heard that children were invited to various squadron functions. That TOO is a part of life.

Yes, they have the freedom to vent, curse, hate kids, hate my kids - only they can control themselves. It started out with some guy mad about kids at the commissary... and now I feel like I need to protect all children from preying soon-to-be/aviators without kids. Thank God the majority of the single guys I know are a bit more understanding!

I do disagree with you. I do think there is malice with some of them, while others may have just wanted to rant and join the band-wagon. A lot of it is legit venting, and some is just because they don't have kids...and that's fine. I felt that it was necessary to speak up for the sake of the kids. I felt like there were only a handful of dads that did speak up for the kids - and that was really great.

I didn't plan on bothering with this thread again, but after reading a few posts, I knew I wanted to speak my mind. I'm sure there will be a myriad of personal attacks and rude comments about kids in general following mine. That's fine. Vent away.
 

GO_AV8_DevilDog

Round 2...
Contributor
Fred:

GoAV8DevilDog: My husband and I got a good laugh over your picture. Thanks. However, if you attempt to tell me that I am not apart of the military...it's true. It was my choice to get married to my husband, and it is my choice to remain with my husband... I have no contract to the government. he does. But please don't suggest you know more than I when you are 21, not yet a Marine, a junior in college, unmarried and without children. If you ever get married..your wife is committing to the Corps as well. We don't have a contract with the government, but we are in a commitment to our spouses. Just as there is commrodery with your peers, the spouses have it with our peers as well. We are there to support our husbands/wives. If you are in a committed marriage, then YES, there is an indirect contract with the Marine Corps, as am I.

I'm glad you got some amusement from my post.
Also the fact you took some time to look at my bio before responding to what I posted.

The religion thing is something thats been pretty explicitly stated in the FAQ forum so I wont go there.

But yes you are correct, I am not yet a Marine. It is something I want more than anything else in the world but alas, wanting is not having.

HOWEVER, I am a child of two career AF enlisted (AF jokes aside) who both retired after their 20 years of service when I was 17. So it can really be said that I've been "affiliated" with the military longer than you (I saw that you graduated college in '00)

I was not implying in my post anything other than that.

And your right, maybe it wasn't my place to point out that you were shoving these guys with their WOG credos back into their throats but I know enough to see something was a little wrong with that.



And since its all out, my mom was a single parent for a long time so there were occasions when she had no choice to bring me or my brother or both of us to the commissary, but you'd better believe it that we'd get our ass beat in the middle of the store if we were acting like little shits.
 
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