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Spare the rod, spoil the child (child-rearing tips for aviators)

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
Taking your children places and teaching them how to behave in public, in various environments, is a very important part of their education as they are growing up. They need to learn that you act differently in church, at the library, at the playground, at a ball game, or in the hangar at dad/mom's squadron.

People without children, or whose children are now older, need to realize and/or remember that, and realize that they also benefit when other people's children learn how to act properly in public. And that involves actually putting the children in those environments. It isn't always a possibility to get a sitter; and some of you here would benefit from learning how to show some empathy (at least based on your posts).

However, people with children need to realize that once their children's behavior starts affecting other people negatively, something needs to be done. That could be some type of punishment on-the-spot or it could be removing them from the situation. But too many times parents don't seem to care how their children's behavior affects others; that is more of a problem than those small-children-less individuals who get irritated a little too quickly.
 

FlyMikeFly

Happiness is Vectored Thrust
pilot
Contributor
So isn't this the "Spouses Corner", why are there so many singles dudes in here causing trouble with hard working moms and dads? Go play PS3 or something! Hey wait a minute, why am I in here right now? :D
 

Fred

Registered User
The commissary for example An enlisted dependant goes in with her young kids and there are daggers pointed in her direction. An officer dependant, "Let me hold the door for you ma'am"... I've been on both sides. It makes me mad. We as dependants do NOT hold rank. That being said, why is there such a difference?


Rgfh, I wasn’t suggesting you get a sitter for your kids to go grocery shopping, merely pointing out it’s not unheard of and that is what I did when my kids were little. Since you go for such a short amount of time, I can understand not getting a sitter.

I’ve never been treated differently at the commissary because of my husband’s rank. In the years I’ve been shopping I don’t think anyone has gone out of their way to open a door for me just because of my husband’s rank. The ID “Nazi” checks the expiration date on the back of my card, not rank on the front, and sends me on my way. How would anyone else know the rank of your spouse?

I'm not trying to fight and say that kids should be welcomed at adult functions. What I saying is that for those that do not have good judgement to leave kids home when they would need to sit still/be quiet for any amount of time/there will be drinking - maybe some people on here should learn some tolerance. Yes, it is inconsiderate...but it will happen, and we don't we ALL need to have thick skin, a sense of humor and tolerance as so many have eluded too?

Honestly, I send them home if I am hosting an adult function in our home or am involved in planning one. I will not tolerate kids being at adult only functions, and the invitations always VERY clearly state whether or not it’s OK to bring kids. I will say something along the lines of, “I am sorry if we didn’t make it clear that this was an adult only function, but it’s not appropriate for your children to be here. I do hope you can make it to the next one.” My husband’s last command had an 04 show up with a 2yo to a Dining Out! The CO pulled him aside, gave him a good talking to, and they quickly exited. I will say that was a first and hopefully a last I see this, who in the world would think it appropriate to bring a child of any age to a Dining Out?!

While I agree it’s very necessary to bring kids into different situations and environments in order for them to learn to behave properly, I do not think taking them to an adult function is the appropriate place to do this.
 

propwife

Witty User Title Goes Here
Wow. I can only say that as a spouse of an *enlisted Aircrewman, I have never had daggers pointed in my direction... specifically if I had my children with me. Thank goodness! I think anyone, regardless of their husband's rank would be upset by that, so I understand your perspective.

I will say Rg that I understand what you mean with particular functions. I've attended a few mando fun days where it was implied families were invited but not specified. Sometimes that does not get circulated in the plan of the day or emailed correpondence. That can throw some for a loop if they were expecting it to be 'staff' only sans children.. Most events, though, it's obvious when there are bounce houses, clowns with face paint, and naturally any random admin staffer wearing a character costume.
 

Belle

two babies make a mama insane
And since its all out, my mom was a single parent for a long time so there were occasions when she had no choice to bring me or my brother or both of us to the commissary, but you'd better believe it that we'd get our ass beat in the middle of the store if we were acting like little shits.

I don't have kids old enough for this to apply to (yet), but I have to say that the problem "nowadays" is that those of us who got disciplined in public for acting up in public no longer really have that option for our own kids without a lot of fear. I'm not even talking a swat on the butt. I'm talking about something as minimal as, say, grabbing a child by the arm or shoulder, or wherever, getting in their face and speaking "sternly" to them (mom looks awfully strict, maybe she spanks him at home). Or if a kid is screaming his head off because he didn't get the box of cereal he wanted (maybe that mom is neglectful). It doesn't take long at all for kids to figure this out, either. They know (even if they don't know why) that the rules that apply at home aren't enforced in a lot of public situations.

At this point, the only answer to a kid that's acting up in public is to completely remove them from the situation, and if you're doing your weekly shopping trip at the commissary and have to leave a full basket of groceries behind for someone to restock and go home empty handed...well, a lot of moms will chose to tolerate the tantrum instead of forgoing the whole trip.

For every person in the store that approves of keeping kids well behaved in public, there only needs to be one that thinks the situation may be abusive and then you have CPS at your door. Paranoid? Maybe, but it's not unheard of, and I've had many, many, many people comment on various things about my parenting (he looks cold, does he have a jacket? oh no, how'd he get that scratch on his chin?...that sort of thing) in the commissary and my son isn't even two!
 

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
For every person in the store that approves of keeping kids well behaved in public, there only needs to be one that thinks the situation may be abusive and then you have CPS at your door. Paranoid? Maybe, but it's not unheard of, and I've had many, many, many people comment on various things about my parenting (he looks cold, does he have a jacket? oh no, how'd he get that scratch on his chin?...that sort of thing) in the commissary and my son isn't even two!

Oh, just wait until one of your kids gets a broken arm or a black eye!!
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
I don't have kids old enough for this to apply to (yet), but I have to say that the problem "nowadays" is that those of us who got disciplined in public for acting up in public no longer really have that option for our own kids without a lot of fear. I'm not even talking a swat on the butt. I'm talking about something as minimal as, say, grabbing a child by the arm or shoulder, or wherever, getting in their face and speaking "sternly" to them (mom looks awfully strict, maybe she spanks him at home). Or if a kid is screaming his head off because he didn't get the box of cereal he wanted (maybe that mom is neglectful). It doesn't take long at all for kids to figure this out, either. They know (even if they don't know why) that the rules that apply at home aren't enforced in a lot of public situations.

At this point, the only answer to a kid that's acting up in public is to completely remove them from the situation, and if you're doing your weekly shopping trip at the commissary and have to leave a full basket of groceries behind for someone to restock and go home empty handed...well, a lot of moms will chose to tolerate the tantrum instead of forgoing the whole trip.

For every person in the store that approves of keeping kids well behaved in public, there only needs to be one that thinks the situation may be abusive and then you have CPS at your door. Paranoid? Maybe, but it's not unheard of, and I've had many, many, many people comment on various things about my parenting (he looks cold, does he have a jacket? oh no, how'd he get that scratch on his chin?...that sort of thing) in the commissary and my son isn't even two!

That is where you have to set the example for the other parents and be willing to defend your actions. Little Pickle #1 has had his butt warmed in public...at Wal-Mart, at the Commisary, once at church, and in several parking lots...it is my job as a responsible parent to discipline my children, and if some overzealous asshat decides to call FDCS then so be it...I am willing to defend my rights as a Dad and I won't let the mythical horror stories of kids getting taken away change how I parent.

I can actually take my kids out to dinner/lunch/grocery store and they behave...would I rather go out by myself to run errands? Yes; but they will never learn how to act in public if you never take them out to teach them. So I drag the Pickle clan where I go...Home Depot, grocery shopping, the barber shop when one needs their ears lowered, even out to dinner! They know better than to act up, and when they do they (especially the older one) get in touble.

If They don't get it and we are somewhere such as dinner we take them aside and explain it to them or have a timeout in the car...I have had SEVERAL Applebees dinners in the car or eating by myself while Mrs. Pickle sits out in the car. But not many, and not often.

I don't take them to parties/functions that aren't kid friendly (bars/drinking binges/strip clubs/winging parties) and I don't host functions that aren't kid friendly...part of that parent responsibility to other parents.

People need to stop worrying about what other parents think about how they do their job...they are YOUR kids and they will be the ones taking care of YOU when you get back in diapers...that should be the impetus for raising your kids right, not how Sally Jane know-it-all down the road does it.
 

Belle

two babies make a mama insane
I am willing to defend my rights as a Dad and I won't let the mythical horror stories of kids getting taken away change how I parent.

I agree with the majority of your post, except for two points:

1) The horror stories aren't mythical (nor are they as uncommon as some people think).

2) I think it is naive to refer to dealing with CPS as simply defending your rights as a parent. Yes, that's what it may boil down to, but it can be messy, and life-changing (and not in a good way). For example, I think you would be hard-pressed to find any social worker that thinks any instance of spanking a child as acceptable. And that is just the tip of the iceberg, since if they suspect abuse or it a possible case is reported to them, they are legally bound to investigate it.

But like I said above, I agree with most of what you wrote and I don't think that kids should be allowed to act up in public and should either be disciplined on the spot or removed from the venue.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
However, people with children need to realize that once their children's behavior starts affecting other people negatively, something needs to be done. That could be some type of punishment on-the-spot or it could be removing them from the situation. But too many times parents don't seem to care how their children's behavior affects others; that is more of a problem than those small-children-less individuals who get irritated a little too quickly.
I'm not a parent, but couldn't this be [partially] solved by telling the child to listen to any grown up like they'd listen to mommy and daddy, and subsequently giving other grown ups around the permission to discipline said child if he or she acts up?
 

H60Gunner

Registered User
Contributor
For example, I think you would be hard-pressed to find any social worker that thinks any instance of spanking a child as acceptable. .

I know several actually, and none of them think that. There are conditions though. I worked with several social workers as an investigator, and dealt with some pretty bad parents (Waaayyy beyond spanking). Corporal punishment is not a crime in most states.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg, since if they suspect abuse or it a possible case is reported to them, they are legally bound to investigate it.

Correct except the "tip of the iceberg" thing. At least in my state. I would say that most cases "investigated" are unsubstantiated.

I know way more about child protection than I ever wanted to know. Normal parents who give their kids a wack on the behind will never have to deal with this.
 

Huggy Bear

Registered User
pilot
This thread :icon_lol: :banghead_

Parenting advice and observations from those who have never raised a kid is like getting sex advice from a priest.
 
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