?'s about Primary and Pipeline

[MIDNJAC]

To tack on to the words that have been spoken, as a guy who had prior time (less than you, but 250-ish) coming in the door, for me it wasn't really unlearning bad habits. Most habits you have right now are not very applicable to military flying, aside from maybe comms and very basic airwork (alt/airspeed/etc discipline). The hardest thing for me was learning so many new things at such an accelerated pace, and being thrown into a single seat grey jet with about 200 odd military hours and needing to have SA beyond my hours (at least when compared to most 200 hr civilian dudes) while trolling around at anywhere from 300 kts to Mach 1. Some guys with prior time do awesome, some tank and attrite, and some (like me) still have to really work at it. I'd say it will help you in primary, but probably not much if at all beyond that level.

 

[BusyBee604]

...for me it wasn't really unlearning bad habits. Most habits you have right now are not very applicable to military flying, aside from maybe comms and very basic airwork (alt/airspeed/etc discipline).

What MIDNJAC said... I should have said "GA habits' vice 'bad habits' , as they may not be bad when flying civvie aircraft!
BzB

 

[WinterMute]

Link to related article that statistically argues basically what everyone has been saying:

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA457331

Of course this only applies to the few hours you get out of IFS, but it gives you some notion of the utility of GA flying. IE, statistically significant, but not worth the investment for it's own sake.

Also page 12 of this document:
http://www.hfetag.com/subtags/briefs/docs-63/PS_Prior%20flight%20and%20simulator%20gaming%20experience%20as%20predictors.pdf

200 hours of flight training gets you an extra 6 points of NSS on average in primary (Based on this fairly limited data set)....IE, the equivalent of a couple of good flights. It is important to note however, that correlation is not causation. Just because people have prior flight time do slightly better, does not mean they do slightly better BECAUSE of prior flight time.

 

[707guy]

Now I wonder if someone could skew the averages by finding a CFI who used to be an IP... Kinda like a BzB with a CFI...

 

[707guy]

Link to related article that statistically argues basically what everyone has been saying:

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA457331

From the abstract: "In both cases, the IFS-investment costs significantly outweighed the IFS savings resulting in a net loss and an undesirable ROI."

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) - why is IFS still part of the program?

 

[Jim123]

From the abstract: "In both cases, the IFS-investment costs significantly outweighed the IFS savings resulting in a net loss and an undesirable ROI."

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) - why is IFS still part of the program?

I wondered the same thing when I read that part of the abstract.

On the other hand, it is one study and it is from 2006, when the program was only a few years old.

 

[WinterMute]

From the abstract: "In both cases, the IFS-investment costs significantly outweighed the IFS savings resulting in a net loss and an undesirable ROI."

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) - why is IFS still part of the program?

No idea, but a T-6 flight hour is about 2-3X as expensive as a T-34 flight hour. The article explains that this changes the ROI significantly. Also, the Air Force flew the Tweet and then the T-6A, both of which cost more per flight hour than the 34, which might explain why they have had an IFS-like program for longer. The article is from 06', before TW-5 switched over to the T-6B.

 

[magnetfreezer]

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) - why is IFS still part of the program?

Rumor is Navy/CNATRA types are investigating an AF style program. While there are certainly spears to be thrown, the AF program focuses more on the screening aspect to filter out more who don't have the motivation / basic adaptability with a few relatively cheap DA20 hours instead of more expensive T-6 training. Trying to reduce the number of potential DOR/washout candidates entering primary and helping the rest due to exposure to flight school-like stress might tip the economic scales back in IFSs favor.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Maybe they should just re-write the ASTB

 

[BusyBee604]

From the abstract: "In both cases, the IFS-investment costs significantly outweighed the IFS savings resulting in a net loss and an undesirable ROI."

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) - why is IFS still part of the program?

I'm guessing that it would take a series of independent major $$$ studies, over several years (vice a PG Masters Thesis), before the Navy would abandon a 'pet' program.
BzB

 

[WinterMute]

Maybe they should just re-write the ASTB

I'm not sure I understand, how could you make a written test that determines basic motivation and Aeromedical adaptability? Also, the navy has already begun designing a replacement for the ASTB, the "Performance Based Measurement" PBM. They may have intentions to use this in conjunction with a modified ASTB though, or it might get tossed out completely, who knows.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'm not sure I understand, how could you make a written test that determines basic motivation and Aeromedical adaptability? Also, the navy has already begun designing a replacement for the ASTB, the "Performance Based Measurement" PBM. They may have intentions to use this in conjunction with a modified ASTB though, or it might get tossed out completely, who knows.

Cool thanks for the info. I don't know much about how things work in Naval Aviation

 

[CAMike]

O/P "cans" - The William Hung of TRACOM. Although that would make a really good call sign if you make it thought the program!
(W.HUNG)

 

[WinterMute]

Cool thanks for the info. I don't know much about how things work in Naval Aviation

I think this is a misunderstanding. I was just confused what you meant about the ASTB. There was no intention to imply sarcasm or anything else. Please excuse my inability to detect nuance over the internet, I'll work on that.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I think this is a misunderstanding. I was just confused what you meant about the ASTB. There was no intention to imply sarcasm or anything else.

I know......I was just making a sarcastic reply to your un-sarcastic reply to my sarcastic post