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Reserve Retirement Awareness

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Sometimes the solution is one that currently doesn't exist, and/or goes against the prevailing understanding.

For example: Are mob billets X (Sandystan), Y (CONUS), and Z (somewhere in between) all equal? Should they be?

Maybe we need to re-think the mob:dwell ratio. Any if that's a statutory thing, well, we elect and pay Congress to address those statutory changes.

Mob X to Sandystan, your mob:dwell credit is 1:5, and your physical qual requirements are higher.
Mob Y to CONUS, your mob:dwell credit is only 1:3, but your physical qual requirements are lower, allowing reservists to fill the billet who don't meet the physical requirements for Mob X.
Mob Z to non-CONUS and non-warzone, a goldilocks one maybe somewhere in the middle of those two in terms of physical requirements, with mob:dwell credit of 1:4. Think places that aren't as bad as Sandystan, but aren't as cushy as CONUS. GTMO, an example.
And when sailors arrive at ECRC, if they aren't found physically qualified for the Mob X billet they intended to fill, rather than being sent home they get considered for one of the other Mob categories, Y or Z (downgraded physical requirements) - so they can still continue to serve if they choose, albeit at reduced dwell credit.

This would allow sailors to continue serving if they aren't physically qualified to take Mob X, but it wouldn't penalize sailors to go to Sandystan multiple times instead of CONUS.

I realize this is all theory, and may not work bc the number of CONUS Mobs is extremely limited.

BT BT

I'm not a fan of "no more IAs." I joined in order to be a GWOT IA. I will probably have to volunteer for one of the last ones, before they disappear.
 
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bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
I reiterate that there's a difference between "not qualified to serve" and "can hump a ruck in CENTCOM.".. So just from a pure people-management standpoint, why in God's name would you ADSEP someone who could fill Billet Y or Z just because they don't meet the requirements for Billet X?
Part of the problem was that SELRES were actively hiding known medical issues and then bringing them to light after they were tagged for MOB and at NOSC doing pre-MOB medical. This was causing MOB fallouts and short-fused MOB's for some unlucky recipients. I know a couple of people who, back in the day, got MOB'd with 6 days notice because of this nonsense.

MOB fallouts due to undisclosed medical conditions was and still is a problem. Every now signs Page 13's about hiding medical conditions. If you try that trickery now, you get ADSEP'd. Good. See you later.

I chair many Special Cases Boards for MOB deferment requests as well as ADSEP and other boards. I recently sat one for a SURGMAIN Sailor (they are getting tagged more and more) who was requesting MOB deferment. I followed up with the NOSC about the Sailor's case a few weeks later and it turns out they were ADSEP'ing the Sailor. Why? Sailor had a VA Disability rating and was collecting VA Disability pay but was not disclosing this fact or the medical condition to the NOSC. NOSC reported this to USFF, et al., and they had to cancel the MOB. Sailor was rightly ADSEP'd.

BT

I've always over reported anything medical to the NOSC to avoid any issues. When I hurt my back a couple of years ago (S1 disc extrusion) I was at the time tired of the SELRES grind and figured, screw it, time to go to the VTU. I did and still have to do a yearly MRR for my back and am always NPQ Retention Recommended.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
They want the entire force available in 30 days for Navy-and-peer-conflict-related MOBs.
Is this not what the reserves are now (in theory?)

Also, if they want to push readiness responsibility to NOSCs, they need to dramatically increase staffing quality and quantity.
 

snake020

Contributor
Part of the problem was that SELRES were actively hiding known medical issues and then bringing them to light after they were tagged for MOB and at NOSC doing pre-MOB medical. This was causing MOB fallouts and short-fused MOB's for some unlucky recipients. I know a couple of people who, back in the day, got MOB'd with 6 days notice because of this nonsense.

MOB fallouts due to undisclosed medical conditions was and still is a problem. Every now signs Page 13's about hiding medical conditions. If you try that trickery now, you get ADSEP'd. Good. See you later.

Quoting from an email that made the rounds amongst leadership a couple years ago:

Two region members were recently surprised by mob tags. They believed they were far down on the MRL.... The NIFR HQ Mob office should have not have to vet 32 people out of a list of 40 to find one fully qualified member to tag for MOB. In the case of one member, 1 out of 40 CTR2s on the MRL (less than 1%) was actually eligible to MOB. That is a dismal statistic. Instead of asking "Why were these members selected for MOB?," the better question would be, "What can we, as leaders and as a community, do to better ready our force so we can answer the call?" IWC members are in high demand and that demand signal is not diminishing. We can't afford a less than 1% ready rate.

Whilst I respect the point of view that we do need Reservists to fill in-CONUS roles, if we are going to allow for NPQ OCONUS Reservists to be retained, we have to ensure fairness to those of us who have been able to stay healthy and forward deployed. If the situation were to arise where I were to be denied full dwell time due to excessive NPQs amongst my peers who may have been gaming the system, it would not be an equitable burden.

Maybe one solution is for the promotion board precepts for E-7/O-5 and senior to not consider anyone with a MNN code as fully qualified.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I reiterate that there's a difference between "not qualified to serve" and "can hump a ruck in CENTCOM." I don't doubt that pre-GWOT, there was probably dead weight in SELRES land.

There still is.

But let's be honest. First, we don't do ourselves any favors cliff-vesting a lifetime pension at 20 years (or even 15 years if you're hard broken). If you think people aren't going to try to game that system, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. You can talk about integrity all you want, and if someone's hiding a pacemaker or some other egregious BS, you're probably right.

Whatever the retirement system it doesn't make gaming the system so you can do drill weekends without ever doing a MOB because of some excuse or another right.

But also, Billet X downrange, Billet Y in the Hickam CAOC 10 minutes away from Tripler Army Medical Center, and Billet Z at NOSC Gotham or Burpelson AFB stateside absolutely have different medical requirements, whether or not Big Navy recognizes this fact. So just from a pure people-management standpoint, why in God's name would you ADSEP someone who could fill Billet Y or Z just because they don't meet the requirements for Billet X? Congratulations. You now have to fill Billets X, Y AND Z with people medically qualified to fill Billet X. Meanwhile, Billet Q downrange is gapped. Why? Because Sailor A filling billet Z could have been a fit/fill, but isn't available. Because he or she is stuck filling Billet Z, which could have been filled by Sailor B, who you just ADSEPed or made take early retirement, because they couldn't fill Billet X.

For the same reason we don't let folks in with a myriad of medical conditions, the military needs as much flexibility as they can get to deploy members in a myriad of enviroments in all kinds of billets. It would be a logistical and administrative nightmare to try and categorize which servicemember can go to which billet based on their medical conditions. Does it exist to a degree now? Sure, but they are relatively limited exceptions with more allowed for those already serving. I'm willing to give more leeway to reservists that we've invested a considerable amount of time and money training but I've seen way too many folks skate while the rest of us are stuck holding the bag, or a MOB in our case. A quarter of folks in a single year can't be moblized and the vast majority of them because of medical? That ain't right, period.

Having seen first-hand repeated cases of folks with medical issues not going on a MOB, and in many cases proud of it, my views on this aren't very forgiving. Again, Mattis had the right idea.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Sometimes the solution is one that currently doesn't exist, and/or goes against the prevailing understanding.

For example: Are mob billets X (Sandystan), Y (CONUS), and Z (somewhere in between) all equal? Should they be?

Maybe we need to re-think the mob:dwell ratio. Any if that's a statutory thing, well, we elect and pay Congress to address those statutory changes.

No.

Again, an administrative nightmare that won't really 'fix' anything as CONUS and 'good deal' MOB's can be pretty hard to almost impossible to differentiate from 'hard' ones. I was deployed to a country on my last MOB and it was an 'easy' one, but just a few miles away a buddy of mine had a much harder MOB. And some of the folks from my reserve unit got tagged for some particular CONUS billets and worked harder than almost anyone else, with periodic trips 'downrange'.

It is pretty to make things 'fair' in the military, with much of your career based on luck and timing. Trying to do that with MOB's would cause more problems than it is worth.
 
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ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
Shouldn't readiness, whether for Medical or MOB, fall to the Triad and Troop Leadership? I get all units are different in SELRESland, but this is front and center for every DWE and every leadership call I've been on. My unit in particular, if you don't keep up with readiness they will actively detach you from the unit. Especially now with what @nittany03 said about short-term call-ups.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Two region members were recently surprised by mob tags. They believed they were far down on the MRL.... The NIFR HQ Mob office should have not have to vet 32 people out of a list of 40 to find one fully qualified member to tag for MOB. In the case of one member, 1 out of 40 CTR2s on the MRL (less than 1%) was actually eligible to MOB. That is a dismal statistic. Instead of asking "Why were these members selected for MOB?," the better question would be, "What can we, as leaders and as a community, do to better ready our force so we can answer the call?" IWC members are in high demand and that demand signal is not diminishing. We can't afford a less than 1% ready rate.
If you are on the MRL you should not be surprised by getting tagged. Everyone knows this and is told this.

I know the guy who previously filled MOB billets at NAVIFOR HQ. Last time I was up there (pre-COVID) he walked me through the process. There is more to this "quote" than meets the eye. There is a lot to consider when filling a MOB billet. Just because you are at the top does not necessarily mean you are going to get tagged when the next MOB comes around. For example, you may not have the NEC/NOBC required by the MOB billet. He walked me through a few he had going on at the time and it was eye opening the amount of thought that goes into it. It's not a black and white roulette wheel.

....we have to ensure fairness to those of us who have been able to stay healthy and forward deployed..
No offense :p but you sound like some of the previous senior O6's in my community who were always butt hurt because they mobilized twice in their careers due to timing and circumstance, and that there were some in the community who had yet to mobilize due to the same thing: timing and circumstance. I am one of them despite being at the top of the mob list at all ranks, across two different designators due to being prior enlisted and having a PEBD that always had me at the top.

If mobilization should be a requirement for promotion, then they need to make it a requirement for promotion and start lining people up. Period. But, since that's not how it works and there is more going on in the Reserve than mobilizing, I'd say that will never happen. Having sat on selection boards, I can tell you that mobs are closely tracked. Not because they are required, but because SECNAV wants to ensure everyone is being provided the same opportunity for promotion.
 
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ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
No.

Again, an administrative nightmare that won't really 'fix' anything as CONUS and 'good deal' MOB's can be pretty hard to almost impossible to differentiate from 'hard' ones. I was deployed to a country on my last MOB and it was an 'easy' one, but just a few miles away a buddy of mine had a much harder MOB. And some of the folks from my reserve unit got tagged for some particular CONUS billets and worked harder than almost anyone else, with periodic trips 'downrange'.

It is pretty to make things 'fair' in the military, with much of your career based on luck and timing. Trying to do that with MOB's woudl cause mroe problems than it is worth.

I've had guys in my unit who deployed to the same place come back with the same story. One worked like a dog while the other said it was like working M-F 9-5.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Shouldn't readiness, whether for Medical or MOB, fall to the Triad and Troop Leadership? I get all units are different in SELRESland, but this is front and center for every DWE and every leadership call I've been on. My unit in particular, if you don't keep up with readiness they will actively detach you from the unit. Especially now with what @nittany03 said about short-term call-ups.
I can tell you from experience sitting on boards that they are actively ADSEP'ing people. Heck, my NOSC is now, for the first time ever, enforcing RESPERSMAN drilling muster/adjudication requirements. Not mustered/adjudicated within three days? UA for you. But this goes to fully funding and manning every NOSC.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
I've had guys in my unit who deployed to the same place come back with the same story. One worked like a dog while the other said it was like working M-F 9-5.
I would fully welcome a comprehensive review of all mobilization billets to determine what is actually needed. Many mob's should actually be permanently manned billets by the applicable service. So, there is abuse there going on as well.
 

ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
If you are on the MRL you should not be surprised by getting tagged. Everyone knows this and is told this.

I know the guy who previously filled MOB billets at NAVIFOR HQ. Last time I was up there (pre-COVID) he walked me through the process. There is more to this "quote" than meets the eye. There is a lot to consider when filling a MOB billet. Just because you are at the top does not necessarily mean you are going to get tagged when the next MOB comes around. For example, you may not have the NEC/NOBC required by the MOB billet. He walked me through a few he had going on at the time and it was eye opening the amount of thought that goes into it. It's not a black and white roulette wheel.


No offense :p but you sound like some of the previous senior O6's in my community who were always butt hurt because they mobilized twice in their careers due to timing and circumstance, and that there were some in the community who had yet to mobilize due to the same thing: timing and circumstance. I am one of them despite being at the top of the mob list at all ranks, across two different designators due to being prior enlisted and having a PEBD that always had me at the top.

If mobilization should be a requirement for promotion, then they need to make it a requirement for promotion and start lining people up. Period. But, since that's not how it works and there is more going on in the Reserve than mobilizing, I'd say that will never happen. Having sat on selection boards, I can tell you that mobs are closely tracked. Not because they are required, but because SECNAV wants to ensure everyone is being provided the same opportunity for promotion.

This. I've been through many all-hands and more community calls where this was brought up. Unfortunately, they are looking to see if you've checked that MOB box when board time comes. So for those looking to make O4 they know they need to have at least 1 MOB in the books before they get their first look. It may not be a hard (on paper) requirement, but it certainly appears to be a "soft" requirement.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
This. I've been through many all-hands and more community calls where this was brought up. Unfortunately, they are looking to see if you've checked that MOB box when board time comes. So for those looking to make O4 they know they need to have at least 1 MOB in the books before they get their first look. It may not be a hard (on paper) requirement, but it certainly appears to be a "soft" requirement.
I made O4 on my first look with no mob as a SELRES.

I know several 1835's who MOB'd at least once, and in some cases twice, who did not make O4 on their first look. I know two who 2xFOS for O4... In the SELRES... Both had MOB'd... Some folks think a MOB will fix a bad/poor record and it will not. You still have to do the other stuff (Admin/Training/Ops Department Head, moving around to various SELRES units and not homesteading in the same field, etc.).
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
guy gets an OJI at his civvy job years ago, doesn't report it to the Navy, does years of drilling and AT in a community that does a lot of extra stuff (BTW his real job and his rate are pretty similar), gets mobilized. ECRC medical discovers the old injury (now just a scar) and declares him unable to deploy.
This could have been me. I had a back injury that I worked around for years, and before my 2009 MOB I decided to see an orthopod to document it, as if it became a thing downrange, my civilian med could possibly not cover it when I got home. The doc looked at the x-rays, and they were a shitshow. Discs basically disintegrated and vertebra merged. Ugly. But now documented.

Off to MOB, and they didn’t ask too much, and I volunteered nothing. Off to the desert! It helped I was already old, and all old people are in varying stages of disintegration.
 
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