Can you point me to a reference or instruction?
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Reserve Retirement Awareness
- Thread starter bubblehead
- Start date
Thanks for posting that. Very helpful.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
To add on too that
That will usually come from a MRR result that says NPQ- Retention Not Recommended.
At that point if the individual believes that the injury was in the line of duty they can request a MEB for an active duty pension or take the 15 year early
That will usually come from a MRR result that says NPQ- Retention Not Recommended.
At that point if the individual believes that the injury was in the line of duty they can request a MEB for an active duty pension or take the 15 year early
BLUF: You can take 90, 180, 270, 365 days off of age 60 retirement pay requirement doing active duty orders besides AT and FTS. NDAA 2014 opened it up to aggregate active duty time in consecutive fiscal years. TRICARE still doesn't kick in until 60. I doubt PERS will correctly track this so set your 60ish years old self up for success with good records.
I've done some research on what gets you a "discount" on the age of beginning to receive your reserve retirement, before age 60. Note, TRICARE retired cannot begin before age 60, but your pay can. The 2008 NDAA introduced the reserve retirement "discount" from 60 years old. It got even better in 2015 when you could do 90 or 180 days (aggregate) in adjacent fiscal years. That means going on numerous orders between two fiscal years, with none of them necessarily being over 30 days in itself, counts towards the 90, 180, 270, 365 day discount from age 60.
From what I can tell AT and FTS do not count towards the 90 day aggregate discount. Also note that doing ADT counts towards a SELRES 12-14 AT requirement each year so get orders accordingly. Specifics and references below.
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/career/reservepersonnelmgmt/Pages/NDAA_Changes.aspx
https://www.military.com/benefits/v...e Authorization Act,or after January 29, 2008.
Check out this part: Active Duty, for this purpose, means service pursuant to a call or order to AD on orders specifying, as the authority for such orders, a provision of law referred to in section 101(a) (13)(B), and performed under section 688, 12301 (a), 12302, 12304, 12305, 12406, and chapter 15 (insurrection), or under section 12301 (d) of Title 10 USC.
My AT orders were 10147 (not listed so I don't think AT counts). My MOB was 12302, which is listed. My ADTs were 12301(d), which is listed.
I have little confidence that your ASOSH or PERS is correctly tracking what active duty orders IS or ISN'T ELIGIBLE so make sure you set yourself up for success 20 years from now when you're digging through your firesafe trying to interpret when your pay should begin.
I've done some research on what gets you a "discount" on the age of beginning to receive your reserve retirement, before age 60. Note, TRICARE retired cannot begin before age 60, but your pay can. The 2008 NDAA introduced the reserve retirement "discount" from 60 years old. It got even better in 2015 when you could do 90 or 180 days (aggregate) in adjacent fiscal years. That means going on numerous orders between two fiscal years, with none of them necessarily being over 30 days in itself, counts towards the 90, 180, 270, 365 day discount from age 60.
From what I can tell AT and FTS do not count towards the 90 day aggregate discount. Also note that doing ADT counts towards a SELRES 12-14 AT requirement each year so get orders accordingly. Specifics and references below.
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/career/reservepersonnelmgmt/Pages/NDAA_Changes.aspx
https://www.military.com/benefits/v...e Authorization Act,or after January 29, 2008.
Check out this part: Active Duty, for this purpose, means service pursuant to a call or order to AD on orders specifying, as the authority for such orders, a provision of law referred to in section 101(a) (13)(B), and performed under section 688, 12301 (a), 12302, 12304, 12305, 12406, and chapter 15 (insurrection), or under section 12301 (d) of Title 10 USC.
My AT orders were 10147 (not listed so I don't think AT counts). My MOB was 12302, which is listed. My ADTs were 12301(d), which is listed.
I have little confidence that your ASOSH or PERS is correctly tracking what active duty orders IS or ISN'T ELIGIBLE so make sure you set yourself up for success 20 years from now when you're digging through your firesafe trying to interpret when your pay should begin.
So it’s possible to get a reserve retirement at 15 years even if the physical limitation is not service-connected?
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
That is correct.
You have to go through a MRR first and found NPQ Retention Not Recommended.
Just had an AC have to retire at 17 for back issues. Couldn't MOB to CENTCOM. But he was a good Sailor who just wanted to ride it out till 20 anyway, so I'm glad he got the brass ring, if with a few less dollars in his pension check than he might have hoped for.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
I am glad the reserves has it.
I am at 16+ years but NPQ now. Retention Recommended. I have to do a MRR once per year. Can’t go OCONUS for anything without a waiver. So far it’s been fine. Also for my back issues.
I've been through NAMI hell on active duty, so I empathize with folks who have to go through that process. And I've seen it happen from the damnedest things. Guy I worked with on active duty fell off a ladder, hit his head and ended up with TBI . . . similar story; he's MNN and can't go OCONUS. Still a smart dude and an asset to the Navy, though.
It's one of the reason's Mattis's whole "deploy or get out" thing chapped my ass. The whole point of a reserve is not just to have folks who can go hump a ruck forward, but also arguably to free up AC bodies who themselves are qualified to go forward. If the balloon goes up and that non-OCONUS-qualified person can man a desk and free a non-NPQ person to go forward or underway, then they're still doing their country a service.
I get that there are limits to being qualified to serve, but a lot of us reservists trend older than the AC, as you get older shit breaks down, and sometimes "yut yut oorah" isn't necessarily the answer to that.
For every person like your guy I've known half a dozen or more that were not 'productive' members of the reserve and were marking time 'til they qualified for retirement. When I got MOB'd the first time right around a quarter of the folks who got orders didn't make it downrange, with the vast majority being physically DQ'd. That was ridiculous number of folks getting DQ'd very often for known issues they either hid or the Navy didn't catch.
So while there might be exceptions to the rule Mattis had the right idea.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
My injury is service connected and the reason I got sent to MRR is cause I’m rated by the VA for it.
I got off active duty and affiliated and boom- straight to MRR.
I feel I bring a lot of value to the reserves. Filled in as XO and did all my stuff.
I got off active duty and affiliated and boom- straight to MRR.
I feel I bring a lot of value to the reserves. Filled in as XO and did all my stuff.
I reiterate that there's a difference between "not qualified to serve" and "can hump a ruck in CENTCOM." I don't doubt that pre-GWOT, there was probably dead weight in SELRES land. But let's be honest. First, we don't do ourselves any favors cliff-vesting a lifetime pension at 20 years (or even 15 years if you're hard broken). If you think people aren't going to try to game that system, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. You can talk about integrity all you want, and if someone's hiding a pacemaker or some other egregious BS, you're probably right. But it's like owning a house that might have repairs that you can't afford. Are you really going to go to a doc and have X checked out if you don't have to, if finding out you have X is going to cost you $2M? Or is ignorance bliss? Some will. Some won't. What incentives are we giving people? Because those incentives matter, both from a retention standpoint AND a readiness one.
But also, Billet X downrange, Billet Y in the Hickam CAOC 10 minutes away from Tripler Army Medical Center, and Billet Z at NOSC Gotham or Burpelson AFB stateside absolutely have different medical requirements, whether or not Big Navy recognizes this fact. So just from a pure people-management standpoint, why in God's name would you ADSEP someone who could fill Billet Y or Z just because they don't meet the requirements for Billet X? Congratulations. You now have to fill Billets X, Y AND Z with people medically qualified to fill Billet X. Meanwhile, Billet Q downrange is gapped. Why? Because Sailor A filling billet Z could have been a fit/fill, but isn't available. Because he or she is stuck filling Billet Z, which could have been filled by Sailor B, who you just ADSEPed or made take early retirement, because they couldn't fill Billet X.
FIFY
There are examples of people doing it both ways- acting in good faith but not having every last detail documented in their Navy medical record, and also people intentionally concealing pretty egregious stuff. Maybe the reserves have a better handle on it nowadays (I sure hope so, they've had plenty of practice at it and time to institutionally fix a lot of the cracks that people slip through or sneak through).
Five years ago I saw some some pretty egregious sandbaggers, probably the dumbest excuse was "I can't go on a mob because it hurts my feet to wear boots." (How do you make it through drill weekend and AT?? Your rate is air-conditioned office work for heaven's sake!) A different one I can sort of see both sides of, or better yet see how the general circumstances can still happen when acting in good faith- guy gets an OJI at his civvy job years ago, doesn't report it to the Navy, does years of drilling and AT in a community that does a lot of extra stuff (BTW his real job and his rate are pretty similar), gets mobilized. ECRC medical discovers the old injury (now just a scar) and declares him unable to deploy. He's been doing his job for years but you're telling me there's no room anywhere in the system for him to be productive, none whatsoever- it's his failure for not reporting it (maybe he was hiding it or maybe he was just dumb) but it's also a policy failure in my mind.
Those are jut two examples of true stories, but there are plenty more of both kinds, which is what both of you are suggesting (@nittany03 and @Flash). In any case, I agree with both of you on a lot of points.
Well the latest brainwave out of CNRFC post-COVID is "IA to Zero" and "distributed MOBs." They want the entire force available in 30 days for Navy-and-peer-conflict-related MOBs. Ties in with the Reserve Capability Review, where the Bobs will decide "what exactly it is that you DO here."
So for good or ill, any of the hate and discontent about folks not being ready to MOB after leaving their NOSC is probably going to be moot . . . because the goal now as I understand it is to push accountability for that down to the NOSC, for good or ill. Hopefully it will result in getting rid of whatever of the egregious issues are still left without an increase in chickenshit. But, then again . . . NOSC.