O4 List

[KBayDog]

Agree Flasher, EVERY Squadron (5), CO I had (12), made O-6, in fact 3 of them made Flag, of which 1 (pictured) retired as VADM - DCNO (Air).

Different times, BzB.

I'm the first to admit that "The more things change..."; however, purely anecdotal evidence indicates that the promotion game has changed significantly since then. DOPMA, PME, "Jointness," TRA, etc. have altered how things are done at that level. At the end of the day, O-5 skipper is no longer a shoo-in for O-6.

 

[BusyBee604]

Different times, BzB.

I'm the first to admit that "The more things change..."; however, purely anecdotal evidence indicates that the promotion game has changed significantly since then. DOPMA, PME, "Jointness," TRA, etc. have altered how things are done at that level. At the end of the day, O-5 skipper is no longer a shoo-in for O-6.

You're right...I speak only for my era... thingies: traditions, promotions, leeway for error, PCness, gender/alternate lifestyle issues, CYA leadership, etc. have changed drastically, especially over the past 10 years (some good, others not so much). It's tough being the AW 'Dinosaur', sometimes I wonder if I really have much worthwhile left to contribute here...sigh.
BzB

 

[Flash]

Different times, BzB.

I'm the first to admit that "The more things change..."; however, purely anecdotal evidence indicates that the promotion game has changed significantly since then. DOPMA, PME, "Jointness," TRA, etc. have altered how things are done at that level. At the end of the day, O-5 skipper is no longer a shoo-in for O-6.

Maybe it is different for the Marines but former operational squadron COs have made almost always made O-6 in the Navy, unless that has changed in the past 2-3 years.

 

[KBayDog]

Maybe it is different for the Marines but former operational squadron COs have made almost always made O-6 in the Navy, unless that has changed in the past 2-3 years.

I don't have any stats to back any of this up, but I think the majority of AD bubbas on this board will agree that the past 2-3 years have been very "dynamic" within DoD.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Since when was making Skipper a bad thing? Just because so few on this site have made CO doesn't make it evil, it probably means that most have better things to do than hang out on internet forums. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I would love to make Skipper but one has to be realistic. I'm going to take orders that I love and do my best at them (has been working so far) and if I ultimately make Skipper then that's awesome. What I'm not going to do is take orders as the Porta-Potty Officer in Suckistan just because it "may" look good on a screen board.

Maybe historically those numbers are right, but now? The O-4 numbers are barely over 50%.

I used the numbers that the detailers put out from last year. Now that I think about it those numbers probably had the fuzzy math included that detailers are notorious for. That means the numbers are probably a bit lower.

 

[Flash]

I don't have any stats to back any of this up, but I think the majority of AD bubbas on this board will agree that the past 2-3 years have been very "dynamic" within DoD.

I am being Navy-specific, I know Marine squadron COs haven't been 'automatically' promoted to O-6 like those in the Navy generally and I have yet to see it change. Brett and Webmaster along with a few others can give more current info about the Navy side though.

 

[BackOrdered]

Sounds like this guy had no soul . . . .


Apparently, not high enough !

The accuracy of this statement is unreal.

 

[Renegade One]

What price do you put on your soul?

I'll assume you're jesting. To assume otherwise would just piss me off.

 

[Gatordev]

I'll assume you're jesting. To assume otherwise would just piss me off.

Speaking generally, keep in mind that the path to CO for TACAIR =/= the same path for the rest of Naval Aviation. TACAIR guys tend to have more "desirable" non-operational tours than VP/Helo guys (again, speaking generally...everyone has their sucky IA stories). So I think what Kbay, HAL and IBB are getting at is that it's not worth it to them (and many, but certainly not all) to take the less desirable tour (paraphrased, "selling your soul") just for the POSSIBLE opportunity to make CO when there are other, more desirable but less upwardly mobile billets out there.

I certainly know that's been my take on my career to date.

 

[KBayDog]

So I think what Kbay, HAL and IBB are getting at is that it's not worth it to them (and many, but certainly not all) to take the less desirable tour (paraphrased, "selling your soul") just for the POSSIBLE opportunity to make CO when there are other, more desirable but less upwardly mobile billets out there.

Aye.

 

[robav8r]

What I'm not going to do is take orders as the Porta-Potty Officer in Suckistan just because it "may" look good on a screen board.

Nor should you have to. IA's/GSA's don't make a bad record "healthy", at most they are neutral. If you read the Bio's of the CO's in your community and stay somewhat on "that" path, the odds are you should do OK. The problem really becomes when folks get all liquored up over this "I need to be happy & take care of my family" philosophy that ultimately convinces them to stray from the norm. Not saying you shouldn't watch out for the family and #1 when you can, but don't be disillusioned over the fact that you have to take hard jobs and do well at them if you want to make O5 & above. Just my .02c

Edit: and yes, I know there are fantastic leaders who have done all the right (hard) jobs and been screwed over by the system. I know many . . . ..

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'll assume you're jesting. To assume otherwise would just piss me off.

I would love to make Skipper but one has to be realistic. I'm going to take orders that I love and do my best at them (has been working so far) and if I ultimately make Skipper then that's awesome. What I'm not going to do is take orders as the Porta-Potty Officer in Suckistan just because it "may" look good on a screen board.

So I think what Kbay, HAL and IBB are getting at is that it's not worth it to them (and many, but certainly not all) to take the less desirable tour (paraphrased, "selling your soul") just for the POSSIBLE opportunity to make CO when there are other, more desirable but less upwardly mobile billets out there.

What IBB and Gator said. From my experience, those that made CO gave up too much in the other areas of their life.

But Renegade, I don't really give a flying fuck if I piss you off especially since I often wonder from many of your post if indeed you did sell your soul. There is a reason I made the no inner JO left post in another thread.

 

[KBayDog]

From my experience, those that made CO gave up too much in the other areas of their life.

Bingo. This goes along with rob's post: For many of us, choosing between family/happiness and chasing CO & beyond is a no-brainer.

I love what I do, and I truly love my current assignment (I consciously chose happiness and job satisfaction over taking shit jobs that will enable me to better climb the ladder). However, if I'm ever put in a position to choose between my family and the Corps, it's non-negotiable. The Corps survived for 221 years before I enlisted, and it'll sink or swim for decades/centuries without me. My family comes first.

In the meantime, I'll continue to do all I really can do in this life: Go into work every day and give it my best. Hopefully that's good enough. If not, and the Corps decides (as it continues "Right-Sizing") that I'm not a "straight shooter with upper management written all over [me]," so be it. I won't be bitter - I'll retire knowing that I gave it an honest effort for two decades (over half of my life), did the best I could for my Marines (and, in my current assignment, my Sailors, Coasties, and Allied bubbas, too). I'll also retire relatively young, with good mental and physical health, and, most importantly, a happy, healthy, and intact family.

 

[robav8r]

I consciously chose happiness and job satisfaction over taking shit jobs that will enable me to better climb the ladder.

Serious question: I get the whole "no shit jobs for me" attitude. And I understand the desire to stay in the cockpit, A/C etc. But I'm curious at what point in your career(s) - [not just you KB], doing hard sea duty, overseas duty, (your favorite corner of hell job) became "shit" jobs which made the sacrifices to your family untenable. Did you join the service with this attitude or did it evolve over time from your own, personal experiences. We have all met the "I'm the next CNO" types sporting their fresh butter bars and we have seen the "I'm just along for the ride" types too. Just curious how the "I'm choosing happiness over command" mentality evolved . . . .

 

[Brett327]

What price do you put on your soul?

You make it seem like every Skipper has to do that to be successful. In my view, the challenge of that kind of leadership is to be an effective Skipper while NOT having to sell your soul or putting your own career interests ahead of those you're leading or your family. Not every guy in the front office is capable or willing to do that, but I've also been lucky enough to be around several who do pull that off. I think it's more constructive to discuss those aspects of being a Skipper rather than condemning the entire lot of them as spineless soul-sellers. It's not really fair to the good ones out there who are busting their ass to make a difference to the Navy and their people.