No More DCOIC as of FY20 - ODS Guidance

[bluemarlin04]

If we want their "experience"....

How about we start taking airline pilots and commissioning them through the DCO program and sending them to the fleet? They have the hours and qualifications.

Experience doesn't line up for the intelligence field. It may work for staff jobs but not line officers.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

(Probably) Unpopular Opinion:

With the switch to ODS, new reserve naval officers should not indoc with a NOSC nor perform any drill periods until after ODS. ODS should be a true accession source, just like how “indoc candidates” (from the street) ship to OCS before ever joining the fleet. Recruiters should swear-in new reserve naval officers only immediately before they ship to an ODS class, so as to not impinge the officer’s clock to complete certain time-constrained PQS obligations or skew other TIS/PEBD matters.

Like with OCS, DCO recruiters will now be on the hook for finding their DCO selectees an appropriate ODS class upon receiving the FINSEL. This switch would remove massive workload from NOSC N1 and N7 shops who expend significant manpower trying to gain new officers, indoc them, do medical/dental/flu shot/blood draw, issue CACs, show them Full Speed Ahead videos, inspect their uniforms, find them a unit, find them an ODS quota, and figure out what to do with them on DWEs before ODS/DCOIC. All of that mandatory initial entry stuff will now be standardized and streamlined into ODS.

Change my mind.

Absolutely. I was originally told I'd be going to OCS so I had that expectation, and I've otherwise always advocated going to OTCN first before anything else. The concern I would see is relevant to how ODS works. Right now, it's for active duty medical types, JAGs, chaplains who commission and start doing their work and then at some point later go to Newport. When DCOs get rolled into ODS, I'm curious if the impetus will be to keep the DCO status quo with the whole NOSC BS because 1) that's currently how it goes with DCOIC so why not keep things the same for ODS and 2) the people already going to ODS are not really rushed to get there, why do the same for DCOs. Because DCO programs seek to be as "employer friendly" as possible, probably less reason to rush things.

For example, take HPSP recipients. The ones I know commissioned at the start of med school. They finished med school and went to their first duty station to begin their residency. I don't know the timeframe to go to ODS, but I've come across some who took over a year after graduating before they went. So that's a good 5 years as a medical officer where they haven't gone through Newport yet. There really isn't a rush on their end. It would be great if what you suggest gets implemented for DCOs, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I will do one better. Just do that but instead of ODS send them to OCS. Same standards across active and reserve. What is 7 more weeks if you are already doing 5?

At the very least, the Navy Reserve won't have a hyper-competitive officer selection program and people will be able to more feasibly join before the age of 30 without being "unicorns" (or medical-related, particularly young nurses). Lots of people will be dissuaded from going through a 12-week intensive course meant for young adults fresh out of college. The only Navy Reserve officers I've ever seen get selected out of college are SSOs, but that's a special program through the maritime academies, right?

 

[bluemarlin04]

It works for Army and Marine Reserves. They go through the same pipeline as their active counterparts

 

[bubblehead]

It works for Army and Marine Reserves. They go through the same pipeline as their active counterparts

Well, we are the Navy and are very, very special and the people who we commission are so important and the training would be such a burden, that the Navy would have accession issues.

The current DCO recruitment process is a marketing gimmick. If they told candidates how things really are in the Reserve, they would have actual accession issues. I've seen people punch out because the reality did not live up to the expectation. The ones I have seen do this are civilians who commissioned with no military experience.

What they tell people they need for Intel/183X: speak multiple languages, Master's Degree(s), tons of management experience, etc., etc.

What they tell people they need for IP/182X: multiple technical certifications, Master's Degree in a technical field, tons of management experience

It's a bunch of b.s. None of what they desire for DCO applicants will have any bearing on the success of said applicant as an Officer in that field.

 

[Flash]

Like with OCS, DCO recruiters will now be on the hook for finding their DCO selectees an appropriate ODS class upon receiving the FINSEL.

Decent idea, it is somewhat similar to what the Army and Air Force does with their newly commissioned active duty officers out of ROTC. Except for the ODS dates, leave that up to RESFOR.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Decent idea, it is somewhat similar to what the Army and Air Force does with their newly commissioned active duty officers out of ROTC. Except for the ODS dates, leave that up to RESFOR.

Everyone loves to hate on the NOSCs. I neither hate them nor defend them.

However, if we can take all ~200-300 (?) newly commissioned IWC, SUPPO, CEC, HR, PAO, AEDO/AMDO, EDO, Medical Corps, and Chaplain reserve officers each year nationwide off the plate of the NOSCs, and have all of their initial entry "stuff" be done instead at ODS in a streamlined fashion (while giving OTCN a couple more resources to handle it, especially in the uniform shop and medical).... then we can hate on the NOSCs all we want.

Once ODS starts, it gives CNRFC about 4-8 weeks to line up the member's to-be NOSC and ensure members get gained by a unit before the next DWE. And at that point, NOSC indoc will be a breeze, because members will leave ODS with Full Speed Ahead videos already watched, flu shots already given, urinalysis already completed for the year, they'll be more familiar with NROWS, NSIPS, BOL, DTS, etc.

Part of my DCOIC feedback suggested to line up the start of DCOIC as closely as possible to date of commissioning. Let's make it official w/ ODS.

 

[bluemarlin04]

What they tell people they need for Intel/183X: speak multiple languages, Master's Degree(s), tons of management experience, etc., etc.

It's a bunch of b.s. None of what they desire for DCO applicants will have any bearing on the success of said applicant as an Officer in that field.

Exactly. It’s a complete gimmick.

New acessioned 1835s show up thinking they’re going to be the next James Bond and quickly realize it’s not at all true.

I haven’t once ever seen the need for anyone to speak multiple languages. It’s almost as if we have linguist to handle it....

Or multiple degrees or any of the other nonsense advertised.

These new 1835s show up to my unit telling me all about how their civilians at the DIA and “this isn’t my first rodeo” or how they’re civilians at “insert random agency” and how they can’t wait to go to a SEAL team. Smh

 

[Flash]

These new 1835s show up to my unit telling me all about how their civilians at the DIA and “this isn’t my first rodeo” or how they’re civilians at “insert random agency” and how they can’t wait to go to a SEAL team. Smh

If you are a LT who also happens to be a Deputy Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff for the National Security Council, that actually happens.

 

[bubblehead]

New acessioned 1835s show up thinking they’re going to be the next James Bond and quickly realize it’s not at all true... These new 1835s show up to my unit telling me all about how their civilians at the DIA and “this isn’t my first rodeo” or how they’re civilians at “insert random agency” and how they can’t wait to go to a SEAL team. Smh

Pretty much...

I haven’t once ever seen the need for anyone to speak multiple languages.

That's because there is no need on the Reserve side for 183X's to know or to employ their civilian language skills. Maybe there is a corner case, but I've never seen it and I know 183X's who speak Russian, Mandarin, and Arabic.

 

[bryanteagle6]

So far ive learned how to make a mean pot of coffee for the wardroom! A little more work through my PQS and ill be able to make cappuccino!

 

[bubblehead]

If you are a LT who also happens to be a Deputy Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff for the National Security Council, that actually happens.

Yes, some people weasel their way into things ahead of more senior, qualified 183X officers.

I know someone who did something like this and who now proceeds to advertise to people that he earned a BSM while deployed as an Intel officer with a SEAL Team.

It's disgusting.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Awards O sea stories

Anyone have any sea stories from their time as Awards O (or a bystander) they can share? Good/ bad/ ugly anecdotes? Sailors who were upset that they didn't receive a XYZCOM as their end-of-tour award? Aviators missing out on an Air Medal by only a couple sorties? Stolen valor? Paperwork mix-ups...

www.airwarriors.com

Do tell

 

[bluemarlin04]

Yes, some people weasel their way into things ahead of more senior, qualified 183X officers.

I know someone who did something like this and who now proceeds to advertise to people that he earned a BSM while deployed as an Intel officer with a SEAL Team.

It's disgusting.

Awards are a joke anyway. I only wear my top 3 cause it’s become such a disgusting joke and other officers ask too many questions trying to size you up.

But I’ve only wore khakis once in the past 4 years.

And yea there are ST billets. For the most part you’re still doing regular intel work.

One tool of a LT in a ST tried to clown me for not being qualified when I was a new Ensign. Told him at least I’ve done a deployment and not sat around for 1 weekend a month the last 7 years. Dude got so incredibly butt hurt. Lol

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

It works for Army and Marine Reserves. They go through the same pipeline as their active counterparts

Certainly. It would work for the Navy too. The difference would be there wouldn't be as many people lining outside the door, pushing the Navy Reserve officer boards to have de facto requirements like graduate degrees and 5-10+ years work experience.

The gimmicks mentioned earlier would likely go away to a large extent because they reflect the competitive benchmarks for selection, which is the result of so many people lining out the door.

If reserve officers have to go to OCS, you'd likely have fresh graduates getting selected for Reserve officer spots, just like the other services, because there'd be fewer applicants. A lot of the current DCO applicants aren't going to want to do OCS. Anyways, it seems like ODS will be how it is for the long-term, so OCS discussion is tangential.

The current DCO recruitment process is a marketing gimmick. If they told candidates how things really are in the Reserve, they would have actual accession issues.

What did people think they were going to be doing on drill weekends other than administrivia and dealing with enlisted issues?

Hanlon's Razor is also a major problem besides recruitment gimmicks, and that includes SELRES sailors from the active component doing their best to be helpful but really not knowing any of the nuances of the DCO program as a whole and specific qualification programs. It's a considerable difference between deploying within a year, maybe two, which was false, and not being able to for ~5 years, for example. The idea of not being able to do anything until some point in 2023 is not appetizing, so I'm looking to work around that. Does anyone know where designator/community-agnostic MOB listings are available, or where to look for Army billets?

 

[Flash]

Certainly. It would work for the Navy too. The difference would be there wouldn't be as many people lining outside the door, pushing the Navy Reserve officer boards to have de facto requirements like graduate degrees and 5-10+ years work experience....If reserve officers have to go to OCS, you'd likely have fresh graduates getting selected for Reserve officer spots, just like the other services, because there'd be fewer applicants.

I'm perfectly okay with that scenario, but it would cost the Navy money they don't want to spend so it won't happen.