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Navy Working Uniform Type II and III - finally something sailors can wear....

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
What phrogdriver said. A BSM without a V is basically an end of deployment award for a deployment to a combat zone if you didn’t suck and are of a high enough rank. It was pretty standard for squadron CO’s although our’s got a MSM because he sucked.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Not sure about the Navy, but the MSM used to be a peacetime medal only. After 2001 the army authorized them for award in a combat theater under the caveat that a recommendation for an MSM can not be upgraded to a Bronze Star nor can a recommendation for a Bronze Star be down-graded to an MSM. My experience was that (mostly senior) guys who were routinely exposed to combat but did nothing particularly “brave” were awarded a BS (for merit in combat) while the hard-working folks on the FOBs (who did necessary and critical work) got an MSM (for merit at work). I personally never saw a genuine REMF/FOBIT get a BS.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Not sure about the Navy, but the MSM used to be a peacetime medal only. After 2001 the army authorized them for award in a combat theater under the caveat that a recommendation for an MSM can not be upgraded to a Bronze Star nor can a recommendation for a Bronze Star be down-graded to an MSM. My experience was that (mostly senior) guys who were routinely exposed to combat but did nothing particularly “brave” were awarded a BS (for merit in combat) while the hard-working folks on the FOBs (who did necessary and critical work) got an MSM (for merit at work). I personally never saw a genuine REMF/FOBIT get a BS.
“Effective 11 September 2001, the Meritorious Service Medal may also be bestowed in lieu of the Bronze Star Medal (without Combat "V" device) for meritorious achievement in a designated combat theater.”

Thanks Wikipedia

And there are lots of examples of admin types who never left the wire getting BSM
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
“Effective 11 September 2001, the Meritorious Service Medal may also be bestowed in lieu of the Bronze Star Medal (without Combat "V" device) for meritorious achievement in a designated combat theater.”

Thanks Wikipedia

And there are lots of examples of admin types who never left the wire getting BSM
I did not say there were not other examples, I said I never saw one awarded in my four years of combat tours. I am sure plenty were given out especially at the bigger bases like Victory.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Trivia note: the Bronze Star was created because of the discomfort caused to non aviators by the copious Air Medals being awarded in WWII
True. It is kind of like an evolutionary chart. To infantry guys it is horrible that tankers get any medals. Tankers think artillery guys don’t deserve much more than an honorable discharge. Ground guys consider all aviation medals somewhat pathetic, army aviators chuckle at air medals for jet guys and jet guys wonder why they don’t get more medals.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
True. It is kind of like an evolutionary chart. To infantry guys it is horrible that tankers get any medals. Tankers think artillery guys don’t deserve much more than an honorable discharge. Ground guys consider all aviation medals somewhat pathetic, army aviators chuckle at air medals for jet guys and jet guys wonder why they don’t get more medals.
At this point I don't care so much what somebody's background is—although the snake eating spec ops ninjas tend to have more interesting stories than the paper pushers (then again, there are Radar O'Reillys in the world too)—I care that he or she has got a good war story that will make me laugh my ass off when I hear it.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
At this point I don't care so much what somebody's background is—although the snake eating spec ops ninjas tend to have more interesting stories than the paper pushers (then again, there are Radar O'Reillys in the world too)—I care that he or she has got a good war story that will make me laugh my ass off when I hear it.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm never going to tell my grandkids how some of my missions were worth one point and some were worth two, and that's how grandpa got an air medal.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
At this point I don't care so much what somebody's background is—although the snake eating spec ops ninjas tend to have more interesting stories than the paper pushers (then again, there are Radar O'Reillys in the world too)—I care that he or she has got a good war story that will make me laugh my ass off when I hear it.
Absolutely! @Treetop Flyer encouraged me to look at Wikipedia where I discovered two USAF guys (finance types) were awarded the BS medal and in turn suffered the horrors of cyber bullying. That has to be a series of great stories.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Ah, it's time for the annual "BS≠valor award" thread. Bottom line: BS=air medal for non aviators. Don't be thrown by the word "star" in the award name and confuse it with a silver star. Unless it has a V on it.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Ah, it's time for the annual "BS≠valor award" thread. Bottom line: BS=air medal for non aviators. Don't be thrown by the word "star" in the award name and confuse it with a silver star. Unless it has a V on it.
So the “Ground Medal” or the “Air Star?”
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Ah, it's time for the annual "BS≠valor award" thread. Bottom line: BS=air medal for non aviators. Don't be thrown by the word "star" in the award name and confuse it with a silver star. Unless it has a V on it.
You’re also confusing the “V” as always meaning valor.

Up until 2016, the “V” was the combat distinguishing device. It meant the award was for an action in a combat environment but not necessarily valorous. After Desert Storm, I was on the Navy’s awards board for the Persian Gulf battle groups. We were there to standardize awards between the BGs. The NAM and NCM with a V was basically a lower levels of non-valor Bronze Star. I believe they use a “C” now for this.
 
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