Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October

[Brett327]

Do you mean will be separated?

No.

 

[HSMPBR]

Their cases will be disposed of, just like any other NJP case. TBD on the specifics, we’ve been told, but giving people a way out of their military obligations via vax aversion is something DoD will want to avoid.

For the Soldier, who surely isn’t alone in his thinking, said, “This is the first time I get to tell the Army, NO!,” the DOD will not let him adsep that easily.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Medical has readiness stats like other Depts. If they need to get their readiness % up they will start calling. I got a call out of the blue for MMR, just the titers, and it was so they could boost readiness % for a new CO.

Yep, I’m tracking all that. But that isn’t “sign this pg13 and get it done or else you can’t drill, resked, or go on AT.”

 

[Hair Warrior]

For the Soldier, who surely isn’t alone in his thinking, said, “This is the first time I get to tell the Army, NO!,” the DOD will not let him adsep that easily.

So - and this is just a hunch, but based on some prior examples - yeah I think the DoD will adsep anti-vaxxers, as a force shaping tool and to easily get rid of people of that mindset (more likely on the right side of the political spectrum, on average).

An example might be the “failed” healthcare supercommittee in 2011-12 that produced years of deep defense cuts called sequestration. Pretty sure in hindsight that deep defense cuts were their end goal all along.

 

[DanMa1156]

Their cases will be disposed of, just like any other NJP case. TBD on the specifics, we’ve been told, but giving people a way out of their military obligations via vax aversion is something DoD will want to avoid.

Yeah, it's a catch-22. When you say disposed of, that means the only consequences they will face will be NJP style ones? Extra duty? Restriction? I am genuinely curious. Can CO's "permanently" restrict someone to the ship/pier for foreign ports?

 

[Mirage]

Yeah, it's a catch-22. When you say disposed of, that means the only consequences they will face will be NJP style ones? Extra duty? Restriction? I am genuinely curious. Can CO's "permanently" restrict someone to the ship/pier for foreign ports?

Let's not forget the time any SVM can tell their CO no... Which is when the CO wants to take them to NJP. Smart folks will do so, then leaders will have to decide if they want to take X number of folks to court martial, or just adsep them and be done with it. My money is on adsep.

 

[HSMPBR]

So - and this is just a hunch, but based on some prior examples - yeah I think the DoD will adsep anti-vaxxers, as a force shaping tool and to easily get rid of people of that mindset (more likely on the right side of the political spectrum, on average).

An example might be the “failed” healthcare supercommittee in 2011-12 that produced years of deep defense cuts called sequestration. Pretty sure in hindsight that deep defense cuts were their end goal all along.

Let's not forget the time any SVM can tell their CO no... Which is when the CO wants to take them to NJP. Smart folks will do so, then leaders will have to decide if they want to take X number of folks to court martial, or just adsep them and be done with it. My money is on adsep.

If the adsep fest materializes, then a bunch of JOs on their shore tours with >11 months to MSR following their PRD just might regret getting poked for the hot vax summer.

 

[ABMD]

For the Soldier, who surely isn’t alone in his thinking, said, “This is the first time I get to tell the Army, NO!,” the DOD will not let him adsep that easily.

I don't know about the AC side, but those in SELRES Land will surely be ADSEPed. You only get so many UAs before the ADSEP paperwork starts regardless of reason.

And you can't teledrill, reached IDTs or do anything else on orders unless you're vaxxed.

 

[Brett327]

Yeah, it's a catch-22. When you say disposed of, that means the only consequences they will face will be NJP style ones? Extra duty? Restriction? I am genuinely curious. Can CO's "permanently" restrict someone to the ship/pier for foreign ports?

There are fairly standard ”award” guidelines spelled out in the various legal pubs, and I’m not saying that some of these won’t result in separations, but lots of people are under the assumption that it will be an automatic separation, which doesn’t mesh with how other minor UCMJ violations are handled. I suspect the process will be somewhat different for officers.

 

[taxi1]

If the adsep fest materializes, then a bunch of JOs on their shore tours with >11 months to MSR following their PRD just might regret getting poked for the hot vax summer.

Somebody's got to stand those uber-shitty watches for the next 11 months while the vaxxed folks get the flight time.

 

[Brett327]

If the adsep fest materializes, then a bunch of JOs on their shore tours with >11 months to MSR following their PRD just might regret getting poked for the hot vax summer.

I can’t speak to the situation in the RC, but right now in Fallon and Whidbey, they are seeing very few people actually going through the exemption process, or refusing the vaccine.

 

[Mirage]

There are fairly standard ”award” guidelines spelled out in the various legal pubs, and I’m not saying that some of these won’t result in separations, but lots of people are under the assumption that it will be an automatic separation, which doesn’t mesh with how other minor UCMJ violations are handled. I suspect the process will be somewhat different for officers.

The idea that folks won't be separated for continually refusing the vax seems ludicrous. Sure, most ucmj violations don't result in adsep, but if you don't correct your behavior then all of them would. For example, being late to work a few times won't get you ADSEP'd, but being late every day and telling your boss you have no intention of ever showing up on time will get one ADSEP'd every time.

 

[Brett327]

The idea that folks won't be separated for continually refusing the vax seems ludicrous. Sure, most ucmj violations don't result in adsep, but if you don't correct your behavior then all of them would. For example, being late to work a few times won't get you ADSEP'd, but being late every day and telling your boss you have no intention of ever showing up on time will get one ADSEP'd every time.

Understood, and as far as I can tell, the services haven’t fully figured that piece out yet. There is an implication in some of the CPF guidance I’ve seen that suggests the legal aspects for these cases won’t be handled by unit level COs, so it will be interesting to see how that all will happen.

 

[Spekkio]

So - and this is just a hunch, but based on some prior examples - yeah I think the DoD will adsep anti-vaxxers, as a force shaping tool and to easily get rid of people of that mindset (more likely on the right side of the political spectrum, on average).

I suspect, based on the policy that takes away adjudication from unit COs, that refusals will face more consequences than just an NJP resulting in a reduction in rank and an ADSEP.

An example might be the “failed” healthcare supercommittee in 2011-12 that produced years of deep defense cuts called sequestration. Pretty sure in hindsight that deep defense cuts were their end goal all along.

Another study was commissioned shortly after. Its recommendation was to expand MTF usage and provide a basic allowance for healthcare (BAHC) for anyone who wanted to purchase private family insurance and go outside the military healthcare system. This was the same study that led to the BRS, although the medical reform that never came to fruition was the lion's share of the cost-savings. I suspect one of the reasons the reform died is because many MTFs don't actually have the capacity to implement this policy.

 

[Brett327]

as a force shaping tool

Huh?