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Mast, NJP, and The Trouble Troops Can Get In...
- Thread starter FlyinSpy
- Start date
Van
The Shipmate formerly known as AT2.
I don't disagree that single guys end up with crappy watches or duties, but it does go both ways. I was one of 12 guys selected to get COD'd off JFK a couple days early after a Det. It was great for me because the COD was going to Norfolk and I was stationed at Oceana but the boat was pulling into Mayport. Long story short, there were only 8 seats available for the fly off. The Sea-Op-Det LPO hooked up 8 single guys, E-4 and below, that lived in the barracks. All 4 of us that were left behind were E-4 and above, married, and had kids. No joke. I was more than a little pissed, but I got over it when I stepped off the MAC flight at Oceana and saw my family. I also had the chance to get to know one of my co-workers pretty well and I now have a great friend because of it.
Is that the norm? Absolutely not, but people w/dependents do get the shaft sometimes. 'Tis life.
Oh, and I'd volunteer to take the New Years watch for someone that wants to bring in the New Year with some friends and frosty beverages; and I appreciate those that stand the watch so that I can watch my kids open their presents on Christmas morning. I won't always have the chance to be there, gotta take advantage of those I get!
Is that the norm? Absolutely not, but people w/dependents do get the shaft sometimes. 'Tis life.
Oh, and I'd volunteer to take the New Years watch for someone that wants to bring in the New Year with some friends and frosty beverages; and I appreciate those that stand the watch so that I can watch my kids open their presents on Christmas morning. I won't always have the chance to be there, gotta take advantage of those I get!
I will gladly admit (much to my dismay) that the front office 'let' the wives club dictate policy.
I also saw a CO's wife involved in the movement to get the XO relieved prior to change-of-command because CO's wife and XO's ex-wife were very close and the XO and his ex had a very nasty divorce.
I will also admit that it was a f*cked up squadron. As a single guy I got tagged for Christmas duty and I was checking out of the squadron on 03 January!!! Since I was househunting (see previous comment about my farewell) when the SWO had the meeting, I got picked to Christmas for the expressed reason that I was single and I wasn't leaving the area for the holiday because I was checking out of the squadron. (Yes, I'm still bitter!!)
As for wives clubs, in my two RAG tours there pretty much wasn't a wives club since the husbands were home every night. I can't speak for TRACOM units, but I would suspect they are similar.
On my Joint tour the only spouse support is that which you can arrange on your own... Joint command do not do spouses club since the staff is freakin' huge and a large portion of the staff doesn't deploy for over a month.
At the War College there is a pretty good spouses club. It functions to give the wives (and some husbands) some support since there are a lot of non-Navy folks trying to exist in a Navy environment.
In my 18 years I can honestly say I have not seen any benefit to me (not speaking for my wife) from the wives club. We had a wardroom vote not to do an Officer's Christmas party since we were getting back from C2X on 20 DEC. Well, one of the wives already bought a dress and mentioned it to the CO's wife... guess what? That's right, mandatory fun on 22 DEC!! Granted this is the same front office that moved my farewell up a week because it was more convenient for the wives to meet the week prior...
Kind of like the Navy, everyone's experience is different; I'm only expressing my thoughts based on how it's played out in my squadrons.
It's a brown bagger's navy. Always has been. Always will be. BTW I once volunteered for the duty on Christmas day. Stateside we were in six section duty. That means duty New years Eve. Switch back to my old duty section. Not a chance. As for the wives, the whole V-neck T-shirt fiasco was rumored to be the result an Admiral's wife not wanting to see underware.
Van
The Shipmate formerly known as AT2.
Been there, done that. Stood the Christmas watch and New Years Eve watch in the same year, but I didn't volunteer. You can't really complain or blame anyone but yourself if you volunteered for it.
We're in the Navy. There's crap that happens no matter where someone is, what their job is, or what's going on in their personal life. Is it really that big of a deal if some (not all...SOME, NOT ALL) Brown Baggers get some considerations every once in a while? They still do the same job, go on the same boats, etc, etc. Everyone gets poo'd on, do we have to compete/argue/complain over which turd stinks more?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Brown Baggers should get NO special considerations above single dudes.
I treat all watch snivels equally.
Single dude x wanting to not stand watch on a certain day to go see KISS gets the same consideration as dude who wants day y off to see his kids dance recital.
I treat all watch snivels equally.
Single dude x wanting to not stand watch on a certain day to go see KISS gets the same consideration as dude who wants day y off to see his kids dance recital.
Wow, you guys are babies. Be a good sailor, stand your duty, and move on. Stop worrying about whether other people are getting a better deal than you. As a good XO told us over and over....it all evens out over 20 years. :icon_smil
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I had a great OpsO in the battalion. Right after he took over, he had a meeting with the whole Ops Shop. He said something along the lines of we're in garrison, spend time with your families, if you need to leave early because of something - by all means take off. He then looked at me (the only single guy at the time) and said that single guys have families/outlets that they need to take advantage of as well, and that if I had a tee time or a concert that I wanted to go to - by all means, take off.
If that man ever becomes a battalion commander, I'd consider jumping on an IMA det billet and being his AirO. A spectacular leader all around (even if it did take close to 6 months to convince him that Assault Support pilots will damn near kill themselves to support him and his Marines, but that's another story for another day, over a beer).
Van
The Shipmate formerly known as AT2.
I absolutely agree that they should get equal consideration when the requests are made. Brown Bagger have to be flexible to accomodate everyone else. I'm not implying that they should get special consideration over a single Sailor just because they have a family.
I will say that sometimes there is more to take into consideration for a BB that might influence a decision. You seem pretty emphatic about your "NO special considerations"; what about someone with a "special needs" child?
I'm not trying to convince anyone that single guys/gals don't get shafted, nor am I trying to convince anyone that those with dependents should be catered to. I just wanted to point out that married guys aren't ALWAYS getting out of duty and single guys don't ALWAYS get shafted.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
If they have a standing snivel for "no watch/duty on every Thursday night so they can take their kids to Jerry's play group for special kids, that gets treated the same as if a single/DINK guy needed every Tuesday off to work on his masters/CFI.
If the special needs parent needs to be unavailable to the point it really starts impacting scheduling (say "I can never fly past 10pm because I need to do Y for my kid.. EVER").. They really should be giving consideration to NOT being active duty/TAR anymore.
EFM addresses this in a different manner.
I will now barricade the Puma against the overwashed Bath & Bodyworks horde that is going to bear down on me with pitchforks, aka the Wives Club..
FYI, I have had no bad dealings with the wives club at my current squadron. I'll give them a fair chance to prove themselves different.
So, you're saying a computer could do your job?
I still think a skilled enough programmer could make a skeds writer's job SO much easier . . . plug in the people and events you want, with the initial conditions, jet availability, etc. etc. It's all logic-based. Then it spits out a rough for the SkedsO to sanity check and tweak.
Don't get me started on the usability of SHARP. :icon_tong
I agree on the program thing, especially for a watch bill that's genned up far in advance of the flight schedule. My point was that if you're going to treat each snivel as equal, then you might as well just have a computer do it. At the end of the day, you need a warm body for the sked, and if everyone has a sniv/reason to not stand watch, then someone has to make the tough call as to who gets to sit behind the desk for the day.
Van
The Shipmate formerly known as AT2.
I agree 100% I think any schedule conflicts should be determined case by case and not default to one group or another.