M 16 and M4 Civilian Variants

[Rocketman]

Wow, those guys are less than 10 minutes away from me... I think I shall get one.

It's a good deal but apples to apples not a whole lot less than a Rock River. RRA sells their basic upper like that for $475 but that price includes the bolt carrier group and charging handle. You can get same same BCG and CH for about $160.00 total. All up price for DSA ready to shoot would be roughly $ 435 unless you have that stuff already.

It does have M4 feed ramps and I don't think the RRA does. That doesn't matter to me. The Nitride Treated barrel might though. I've read that it's very similar to the finish on a Glock. That's some hard, rust resistant stuff. I think the bore is treated with it too. The people that make the barrels (not DSA) claim it offers similar or better benefits to a chrome lined barrel. YMMV

The DSA upper with a parkerized barrel is $265 I think.

 

[FLY_USMC]

Just a small head's up...since I'm back from an absolutely redonkulously long ground deployment....my FFL never received the lowers!? Never came, so maybe he didn't get around to shipping them after all? Masterbates did you get yours? I've got bigger fish to fry but this is almost humerous....as theres pretty much NOT a shortage of lowers anymore!

 

[MasterBates]

Mine are at the MCX, I just got back from a Det tonight, so I have not picked them up yet.

 

[Rocketman]

Just a small head's up...since I'm back from an absolutely redonkulously long ground deployment....my FFL never received the lowers!? Never came, so maybe he didn't get around to shipping them after all? Masterbates did you get yours? I've got bigger fish to fry but this is almost humerous....as theres pretty much NOT a shortage of lowers anymore!

I pinged him again a min ago with your order number, your FFL info and a copy of the PM where he told me that your's and MB's went out. I asked him to look into it but I have heard nothing back from him since the 5th (when he sent me the PM saying your lowers shipped). Might not hurt to ping him again via email but not sure it will do any good.

PropAddict you might want to see if your can get a copy of your cashed check. Consider sending one more email with a copy of your cancelled check attached. No response from him since I last PM'ed him on the 5th and again on the 11th about you order.

H60Gunner if your check still hasn't been cashed I'd cancel it as soon as you read this.

Knowing what I know now I have little confidence that this stuff will ever get completely straightened out. There are threads all over the web about group buys just like this one but the number of LRB lowers ordered is a lot bigger on many of them. I just saw one thread that was 61 pages long. It was about an Indiana group buy. In that case The Indiana Attorney General's office, the ATF and local law inforcement have been in touch with the sellers. My guess is that the US Postal Inspector's office have as well on behalf of those who paid by US Postal Money Orders.

Lessons learned. Most group buys work out in the end but all are a goat rope. These lowers group buys have been much worse than usual. When buying online always use a US Postal MO or a credit card. If it looks too good to be true it probably is.

I'll keep buying the great majority of my shooting stuff online but this was my first and last group buy.

 

[PropAddict]

PropAddict you might want to see if your can get a copy of your cashed check. Consider sending one more email with a copy of your cancelled check attached. No response from him since I last PM'ed him on the 5th and again on the 11th about you order.

Sent.

And. . .oh. . .my. . .god.

 

[Rocketman]

Sent.

And. . .oh. . .my. . .god.

Yup. There are several group buys in trouble or at least having trouble. I edited the post above to reflect more accurate info I got today.

Other than an internet forum connection there is no business connection between the Indiana Group buy and the Second Amendment Firearms Group buy. As of a few days ago it looked like lowers are still being slowly shipped by the SAF people.

Also the LRB folks are stand up people and other than trying to help aren't involved in anyway in this crap.

I think the root causes of the SAF issues have to do with the bottom falling out of the firearms market and a couple of guys with a business on the side getting in over their heads.

More on this soap opera when and if I hear it.

 

[FLY_USMC]

Appreciate the help. I had very good luck when I emailed them in the past with prompt responses. Not so much lately, but at least I emailed them as well to question whether they actually got lost in the mail, or not shipped at all. They'll make it, one way or another I'd imagine.

 

[PropAddict]

Woo hoo!

Finally got an e-mail response:

Your lowers are being packaged right now and will ship tomorrow, and if not, then early next week.

I guess sending the check copy got their attention.

 

[FLY_USMC]

I just got a phone call from them saying they had my lowers ready to ship but no FFL to ship them to. For god's sake would you please organize your shit?! My FFL sent them a copy like a month ago. I guess they'll show when they show.

 

[Rocketman]

I just got a phone call from them saying they had my lowers ready to ship but no FFL to ship them to. For god's sake would you please organize your shit?! My FFL sent them a copy like a month ago. I guess they'll show when they show.

Damn I've that's the very first time I've ever heard of them calling someone. If you still have the number maybe you could PM it to PropAddict. I'd email them and call as well at this point. You might have to call them after hours as they both work other jobs. One of them is named Frank (He's the one posting updates and doing the shipping now) Miguel was the one who went dark.

Looks like a couple of the other group buys have money issues. These guys just seem to have screwed the pooch on the record keeping more than anything else. Looks like the second guy (Frank) is getting involved to help straighten things out.

The good news is that I did a build with one of their lowers Sat. and it worked out just fine. Fit and finish is good to go.

They Posted this on Militaryfirearm.com mid afternoon today.

PropAddict you are listed as FFL not matched to invoice. What time did you get the email? See below...

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=11294&page=11

"This is going to be edited on the fly:

As i type this i am going through records and putting names on the next 120 lowers that are going out. We have found though that some peoples credit cards were denied and thus we have not received payment. Again for those that we have all documentation, payment etc we are getting these out emails have been sent out and more to follow with those that have issues.

Invoice 1296 no cigar thats a bad incoice #

invocie 1277
1242
1199
1147
1176
1260
1253
1238
1243
1136
1206

Heading out tomorrow stil adding more just dont anyone to jump off a bridge here"

AND

OK if FFL is on this list this means that it is not matched to any invoice. Please send you info Name and Invoice number and which FFL belongs to you at my email or PM here please dont post on thread.

Name of FFL City
Family Firearms & finished Oxford, Oh
On Point Firearms St. Pete FL
The Marksman Criminal Justice Newport News, VA
Dens Gun Shop W Seneca, NY
Reds Indoor Range Austin, TX
High Plains Guns Wichita Falls, TX
O'currans Inc Salem, WV
Illinois Swcure Firearm Sale Glendale Heights, IL
Day Guns Killeen, TX
MWR Activity 1110 Norfolk, VA
Bayou State ARMS Sulphur, LA
The Armory Virgina Beach, VA
Scuba Tiger Orange Park, FL (military personel)


AGAIN, PLEASE PM OR EMAIL ME YOU INFO I AM TRYING TO GET THEM OUT ASAP..

 

[Rocketman]

I just got a phone call from them saying they had my lowers ready to ship but no FFL to ship them to. For god's sake would you please organize your shit?! My FFL sent them a copy like a month ago. I guess they'll show when they show.

If you talk to them again tell them that I (rocketman on militaryfirearm.com) got a PM from Miguel (Alamosaddles@aol.com screen name not email address) that said:

"1163 and 1175 just went out"

He sent me this at 3:07 PM on 9/5

1163 was MB's

 

[PropAddict]

Well, I told him that was my FFL in the email that he responded to today, so logically. . .

Anyway, I sent him another e-mail re-iterating, just in case. Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I can't breathe easy until I have my lowers in hand. . .

 

[FLY_USMC]

Damn I've that's the very first time I've ever heard of them calling someone. If you still have the number maybe you could PM it to PropAddict.

I think I have it on my wife's cell phone still, so if anybody wants it, PM me, and when she gets back from the store you'll have it. I fairly positive I talked to Miguel, process of elimination.

 

[H60Gunner]

On the fence. Should I stop payment or let this play out? I know I can buy a lower or 3 pretty fast but don't know if I can beat the price....

 

[FLY_USMC]

Personally? I would stop payment. I didn't, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to pretty soon if shit doesn't start flying at me from all directions. I have no doubt that I will personally receive my lowers, I'm just slightly pissed at how long it has taken.