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Jonny Kim solos the T-6

JoeBob1788

Well-Known Member
Not to beat a dead horse, but his Jungle Expert patch is the old US Army South patch, so a shoulder patch. No Jungle tab exists (then and now) authorized for use apart from the unit shoulder patch; much like Airborne and Air Assault tabs. Unlike SF/Ranger/Sapper, which are standalone individual tabs regardless of unit.

If he was US Army South, he would have been regular Army there, then later SF, then Delta, then SOAR, then a JAG. Personally it’s been a full schedule getting master EOD, and assuming aviation goes well, it’ll be 20 full years to have two careers in the military. 3 full careers, with 4 degrees, is out there.

I did work with a triple-pin SEAL turned diver (so he could train dolphins) turned EOD. But all three are very related and he was an unusual guy.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Not to beat a dead horse, but his Jungle Expert patch is the old US Army South patch, so a shoulder patch. No Jungle tab exists (then and now) authorized for use apart from the unit shoulder patch; much like Airborne and Air Assault tabs. Unlike SF/Ranger/Sapper, which are standalone individual tabs regardless of unit.

If he was US Army South, he would have been regular Army there, then later SF, then Delta, then SOAR, then a JAG. Personally it’s been a full schedule getting master EOD, and assuming aviation goes well, it’ll be 20 full years to have two careers in the military. 3 full careers, with 4 degrees, is out there.

I did work with a triple-pin SEAL turned diver (so he could train dolphins) turned EOD. But all three are very related and he was an unusual guy.
That’s the rub…back in the olden days it was worn as a patch for JS graduates BUT only on field uniforms and I think informally at that. As I look closer I see a red edge on his RSSI (combat patch, right shoulder) and I “think” it is the USASOC patch meaning he was a Delta guy! His timeline is so muddled that his story is either partially fake (imagine an average helicopter pilot who wanted to “look” bad ass) or absolutely amazing!

24DFA705-9AF2-4AC1-A5B0-D8211452C2D8.jpeg
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Actually, I know he is a lawyer, his Bar record, his address. Sure he was an Army pilot and pretty damn sure he was a JAG. Still scratching my head.
OK, so bar record proves he was a lawyer. How do you know he was an Army pilot?

We have a former Seahawk pilot (other than me) in our guard unit. He has been telling lies so long he forgot the truth. He told me some stories which I KNOW aren't true, but other Army aviators seem to believe. Just yesterday he told me how he did overnight SOLO cross countries on a 3 day holiday weekend in the T-34C and full touch down autos SOLO in the TH-57. This is the same guy that sources confirmed was asked to leave the Navy for failing to make PC.

If you practice the lie long enough and further refine it each time you get called out, you can become pretty convincing. I have done a couple of combat medevac deployments in the Army and worked with 160th in a couple of roles. If he is BSing, there is a high likelihood that I could sniff him out. My gut feeling is he is an "Exaggerated Valor" case.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Exaggerated valor is dumb. Be proud of your service and don’t let anyone condescend to you for it. The flip side of that coin is to not denigrate or disparage the service of someone who you think is “less high speed” than you. That culture creates the toxic incentive for other people (who may have served honorably) to try to embellish their record.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
We have a former Seahawk pilot (other than me) in our guard unit. He has been telling lies so long he forgot the truth. He told me some stories which I KNOW aren't true, but other Army aviators seem to believe. Just yesterday he told me how he did overnight SOLO cross countries on a 3 day holiday weekend in the T-34C and full touch down autos SOLO in the TH-57. This is the same guy that sources confirmed was asked to leave the Navy for failing to make PC.

Hmm. I'm thinking you may have two Seahawk guys over there now, then. The one I know did leave the Navy, but was a HAC and DH.

FWIW, I did a "solo" overnight cross-country, but it was in the HTs (with another stud).
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
How do you know he was an Army pilot?
How do you ever know, with out seeing a service record? There is always a chance we have that wrong, but we have dozens of guys that have the T-shirt. I am constantly amazed at how small military aviation can be. A significant number of random people that walk up to our events will end up talking to one of our guys about a mutual acquaintance, experience they shared or place they are both familiar with. I am certain if someone came around with gold wings and claimed to have been in a VS squadron, I could tell if he was a fraud or not. We have the Army guys that can do that. It is all the rest, the details I am not sure of and because none of our people have seen him in that uniform. There has been no vetting beyond the Army Aviator qual.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
That’s the rub…back in the olden days it was worn as a patch for JS graduates BUT only on field uniforms and I think informally at that. As I look closer I see a red edge on his RSSI (combat patch, right shoulder) and I “think” it is the USASOC patch meaning he was a Delta guy! His timeline is so muddled that his story is either partially fake (imagine an average helicopter pilot who wanted to “look” bad ass) or absolutely amazing!
There are plenty of folks on the USASOC HQ staff that wear that patch. Just saying.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Hmm. I'm thinking you may have two Seahawk guys over there now, then. The one I know did leave the Navy, but was a HAC and DH.

FWIW, I did a "solo" overnight cross-country, but it was in the HTs (with another stud).
We do have two. The more recent guy was definitely a HAC before leaving. I have seen his records. The other guy...not so much. Someone who used to be here on AW actually knew the guy I am talking about and filled me in on his story.

I did overnight x-country in HTs as well. But I remember when I was in HTs, full touch down autos on a solo flight were prohibited. This guy wasn't too far behind me in the pipeline. While it is possible that the policy changed, I feel it is unlikely. In the HTs, I did a flight with a foreign solo student. The brief by the instructor specifically said, "No full touch down autos." That didn't stop the foreign student from rolling the throttle back for his "auto to a hover". But that's not what this guy said. He stated it as though it was a common and approved thing.

Has anyone ever done a solo overnight in a T-34? Heck, I know a guy who got lost during the day x-country solo which was just a big circle around Corpus. The idea of giving someone in a T-34 from VT-27 the opportunity to get lost for days at a time is hard to imagine. Not impossible, but very unlikely for the time period.

The examples I mentioned are just what this guy told me in my office this week. My real point is that some people have no problem lying, whether out right or just as an ancillary thing to further their argument or position. Also, some people believe lies are just a common and acceptable thing. For the record, I don't fall into either of those categories.

Wink,

Is this guy going to fly with you guys? If not, I guess it's a "Who cares?" kind of thing. If he is going to fly, I would demand more records. FWIW, the Army had migrated to digital flight records in CAFRS by 2015 give or take a year, depending on the unit. An aviator leaving the Army after that time would have a digital and paper copy of their records. When the records were migrated, an event is recorded on the 7122:

"CAFRS IATF - Migration of 7122 Events Complete. Per USAACE guidance, all required 7122 events have been transcribed into CAFRS. Additionally, local command policy required events have been transcribed."

What that means is that "I didn't get a copy" or "My records were lost" or "They left stuff out" is suspicious. As far as the other swoopy and secret squirrel stuff? It makes for good story telling at an airshow, especially for the uninitiated. The risk is that if it is BS and someone in-the-know finds out before you do, it might cause some embarrassment to your group/organization. Hopefully you'll get it all sorted out.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Is this guy going to fly with you guys?
Negative. We have a very Army centric process for everything, to include training, quals and review of records. So no, this isn't a safety thing. It only bears on the integrity of the organization and mutual respect for other members. I didn't hear him going on to the public about flying for the 160th or combat jumps or anything that might be questionable. All I have is the photo and some other non-mil tangential evidence that bears on his integrity and professionalism. That is why I am going slowly and discreetly.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
OK, so bar record proves he was a lawyer. How do you know he was an Army pilot?

We have a former Seahawk pilot (other than me) in our guard unit. He has been telling lies so long he forgot the truth. He told me some stories which I KNOW aren't true, but other Army aviators seem to believe. Just yesterday he told me how he did overnight SOLO cross countries on a 3 day holiday weekend in the T-34C and full touch down autos SOLO in the TH-57. This is the same guy that sources confirmed was asked to leave the Navy for failing to make PC.

If you practice the lie long enough and further refine it each time you get called out, you can become pretty convincing. I have done a couple of combat medevac deployments in the Army and worked with 160th in a couple of roles. If he is BSing, there is a high likelihood that I could sniff him out. My gut feeling is he is an "Exaggerated Valor" case.
I have known a few odd situations that make me wonder if something is or isn't true, and then there are the ones that you know are not true like the guy that 2 months ago said he did 30 years in the USMC but because he was not happy with the government has declined to take any retirement and now lives in a small crappy motor home. There is also the guy that was a USAF pilot but was told in flight school he was too valuable to move on and so he stayed at flight school teaching others and then finished out his service in what sounded like to me to be a supply job.
 
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