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Jon Stewart
- Thread starter The Wiz
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jeeeeezus daedalus thanx a million for confirming everything i said that you felt like not reading. i know a helluva a lot better than most that there ain't a whole lot distinctive about an ivy education other than its price - and the fact that they don't teach you to believe everything the GOP says. my point was that it's always a mistake to simplify the people who disagree with you as misled or stupid or ignorant - they're people coming at the same issue with different experiences. that's not defining oneself by others' opinions, quite the opposite: it's asserting that everyone has a distinctinve identity that leads them to their beliefs, and you can't just lump them together because you disagree. to infer that i'm elitist for using my background as illustration, in a thread like this, REALLY is the pot calling the kettle black. especially when you start talking about how (other) sincere people can be wrong. wrong by what standard?
capitalism right, communism wrong? yeah i read all of ayn rand's books too, brilliant romantic novels all. but don't think for a second that the events of the 20th century mean you can proclaim as a scientific principle that capitalism trumps communism. the eastern bloc was a kind of socialism, and a bad one. the US is a mixed economy (not a purely capitalist one - trust me, you wouldn't dig it if it was), and a darn good one, AT LEAST where MOST OF US are concerned. any conclusions you draw beyond those are beliefs, not principles of reason. don't exalt yourself and your politics when you can't focus on other people's "fluff" for more than a sec.
which leads me to the real funny thing about your post: the part you called fluff without reading was the part where i encouraged people to actually listen to the other side and argue intelligently, rather than wrapping themselves up in a warm, womblike cocoon of "shut the hell up, i'm right." what the hell good is believing in something if you can't elucidate to a skeptic why you believe it? if that's the case, all we've got left is...
ROCHAMBEAU!!!!!!!!!!
capitalism right, communism wrong? yeah i read all of ayn rand's books too, brilliant romantic novels all. but don't think for a second that the events of the 20th century mean you can proclaim as a scientific principle that capitalism trumps communism. the eastern bloc was a kind of socialism, and a bad one. the US is a mixed economy (not a purely capitalist one - trust me, you wouldn't dig it if it was), and a darn good one, AT LEAST where MOST OF US are concerned. any conclusions you draw beyond those are beliefs, not principles of reason. don't exalt yourself and your politics when you can't focus on other people's "fluff" for more than a sec.
which leads me to the real funny thing about your post: the part you called fluff without reading was the part where i encouraged people to actually listen to the other side and argue intelligently, rather than wrapping themselves up in a warm, womblike cocoon of "shut the hell up, i'm right." what the hell good is believing in something if you can't elucidate to a skeptic why you believe it? if that's the case, all we've got left is...
ROCHAMBEAU!!!!!!!!!!
vegita1220
User
Innocent college freshman here...what the hell's roshambo?
Room you should stick to the philosophy.
Why did the USSR fail, why is China moving to a capitalist economy, why is North Korea starving, why are Cubans driving 50 yr old cars, why does France have 12% unemployment?
I'm not going to apologies for the facts to preserve your ego.
'but don't think for a second that the events of the 20th century mean you can proclaim as a scientific principle that capitalism trumps communism.' that's exactly what I am saying, ya we wouldn't want to learn from history, or use facts to support our arguments, that would be wrong.
BTW have you had economics (if you have you obviously didn't understand) and what happened to the Academy?
“i know a helluva a lot better than most that there ain't a whole lot distinctive about an ivy education other than its price” I know, you brought it up so people would think you are smart, not me.
“my point was that it's always a mistake to simplify the people who disagree with you as misled or stupid or ignorant - they're people coming at the same issue with different experiences. that's not defining oneself by others' opinions, quite the opposite: it's asserting that everyone has a distinctinve identity that leads them to their beliefs, and you can't just lump them together because you disagree”
good point I should have addressed the beliefs and history of every person on this planet before I say anything so as not to offend anyone, we should not use words such as communism, democracy, republican, or American, because maybe they came from another country, or maybe they spent 2 weeks in Europe and thus are somehow less American than the rest of us. Let us not lump people together by calling them male or female or white or black or Asian because that might offend someone, let us make general statements to attack others without ever holding an opinion because others might not like it, yes that would be bad.
“especially when you start talking about how (other) sincere people can be wrong. wrong by what standard”
I was not talking about other people I was talking about you numbnuts (you have been rochambeaued) by what standard? There you go again about being so vague as to evade any sort of opinion; shall I write a rule of law on every possible subject and encounter before I say anything, so I can point to it and say there that standard paragraph 7 line 2 on page 2987-987 how about the standard of reality in which the rest of us live?
“which leads me to the real funny thing about your post: the part you called fluff without reading was the part where i encouraged people to actually listen to the other side and argue intelligently”
What you’re saying here again is that we should have no opinions as they might be bad. I believe Kimphil made points (I did not ignore them he just didn’t know what he was talking about) I argued them intelligently by citing your ‘standard’ the IRS tax table, he did not know that capital gains are double taxed and I let him know, so I have met your standard of listening and bringing to a standard, but you seem to avoid facts, logic or any attempt at an opinion to show others what big words you use or how you are the superior person by making your position political ecumenism.
I only read one Ayn Rand book, The Fountainhead, and it SUCKED how’s that for an opinion.
Have I addressed your Fluff enough so you know I can read?
If you have any points or opinions please bring them up so they can debated, or heaven forbid proved wrong instead of saying “everyone has a distinctive identity that leads them to their beliefs” Ya everyone has different size feet so lets not make shoes.
Why did the USSR fail, why is China moving to a capitalist economy, why is North Korea starving, why are Cubans driving 50 yr old cars, why does France have 12% unemployment?
I'm not going to apologies for the facts to preserve your ego.
'but don't think for a second that the events of the 20th century mean you can proclaim as a scientific principle that capitalism trumps communism.' that's exactly what I am saying, ya we wouldn't want to learn from history, or use facts to support our arguments, that would be wrong.
BTW have you had economics (if you have you obviously didn't understand) and what happened to the Academy?
“i know a helluva a lot better than most that there ain't a whole lot distinctive about an ivy education other than its price” I know, you brought it up so people would think you are smart, not me.
“my point was that it's always a mistake to simplify the people who disagree with you as misled or stupid or ignorant - they're people coming at the same issue with different experiences. that's not defining oneself by others' opinions, quite the opposite: it's asserting that everyone has a distinctinve identity that leads them to their beliefs, and you can't just lump them together because you disagree”
good point I should have addressed the beliefs and history of every person on this planet before I say anything so as not to offend anyone, we should not use words such as communism, democracy, republican, or American, because maybe they came from another country, or maybe they spent 2 weeks in Europe and thus are somehow less American than the rest of us. Let us not lump people together by calling them male or female or white or black or Asian because that might offend someone, let us make general statements to attack others without ever holding an opinion because others might not like it, yes that would be bad.
“especially when you start talking about how (other) sincere people can be wrong. wrong by what standard”
I was not talking about other people I was talking about you numbnuts (you have been rochambeaued) by what standard? There you go again about being so vague as to evade any sort of opinion; shall I write a rule of law on every possible subject and encounter before I say anything, so I can point to it and say there that standard paragraph 7 line 2 on page 2987-987 how about the standard of reality in which the rest of us live?
“which leads me to the real funny thing about your post: the part you called fluff without reading was the part where i encouraged people to actually listen to the other side and argue intelligently”
What you’re saying here again is that we should have no opinions as they might be bad. I believe Kimphil made points (I did not ignore them he just didn’t know what he was talking about) I argued them intelligently by citing your ‘standard’ the IRS tax table, he did not know that capital gains are double taxed and I let him know, so I have met your standard of listening and bringing to a standard, but you seem to avoid facts, logic or any attempt at an opinion to show others what big words you use or how you are the superior person by making your position political ecumenism.
I only read one Ayn Rand book, The Fountainhead, and it SUCKED how’s that for an opinion.
Have I addressed your Fluff enough so you know I can read?
If you have any points or opinions please bring them up so they can debated, or heaven forbid proved wrong instead of saying “everyone has a distinctive identity that leads them to their beliefs” Ya everyone has different size feet so lets not make shoes.
Um, based on my understanding (from South Park), it is where the combatants exchange kicks to the groin area until one of them is forced to quit.
Also, no one is an idiot for having their own opinion on a subject. It is our God-given right, which is secured by the Constitution, to form such opinions regardless of who agrees with it. Everyone posting here has a valid opinion on the subject and none of them are 'wrong' because to classify them as such is completely subjective to the opinion of the reader.
BTW, here are my qualifications...Socrates thinks I'm a wise man because I realize that I don't actually know anything =)
JR
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
--Socrates
Also, no one is an idiot for having their own opinion on a subject. It is our God-given right, which is secured by the Constitution, to form such opinions regardless of who agrees with it. Everyone posting here has a valid opinion on the subject and none of them are 'wrong' because to classify them as such is completely subjective to the opinion of the reader.
BTW, here are my qualifications...Socrates thinks I'm a wise man because I realize that I don't actually know anything =)
JR
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
--Socrates
vegita1220
User
Lol ok got it...sounds painful.
How ironic that the naval science class topic for me today was tolerance of others...
How ironic that the naval science class topic for me today was tolerance of others...
Kimphil: Yeah. you're right, the media isin't liberal. Like, when Dan Rather called Florida for Gore every chance he got knowing full well that the polls wern't closed in the in conservative panhandle of the state, he wasn't being biased or anything. Or when CNN reports nothing but gloom and doom in Iraq, as if nothing good ever happens there, they aren't trying to make the President look bad, even though everyday we help the Iraqis' rebulid and restore everything they lost under Sadam. Or, when George Stephanopolis says, well, anything, that isin't bias, no, not at all. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Paraphrasing what was said by one Republican leader: They have ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, and NPR. We have Fox news.
BTW, take a good long look at the platforms of most of the so called "liberal" demarats and tell me they aren't socialist in design. People aren't saying that Denis Kucinich should be running for the socialist nomination for no reason.
So Kimphil, in the words of Dennis Leary: WAKE UP AND SMELL THE MAPLE NUT CRUNCH!
Paraphrasing what was said by one Republican leader: They have ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, and NPR. We have Fox news.
BTW, take a good long look at the platforms of most of the so called "liberal" demarats and tell me they aren't socialist in design. People aren't saying that Denis Kucinich should be running for the socialist nomination for no reason.
So Kimphil, in the words of Dennis Leary: WAKE UP AND SMELL THE MAPLE NUT CRUNCH!
doubledown
Registered User
This is the exact reason I stopped watching Network news. And to say there is not an overall liberal slant is naive. Sure there are a FEW conservative papers and networks (FOX is the only one i've seen), but the majority leans to the liberal side. Everytime I watched the news I would get so extremely pissed off because the people would talk crap about things they don't know. These political science "experts" and ultra-liberal newscasters don't know what it takes to keep them safe, and keep them on the air. They act like it's the end of the world when a few people die. This is war, people die, get over it, life goes on. Anyway, I have to go sleep now because I can't take the political talk anymore. The funny thing is I used to enjoy this stuff.
BTW, I heard that this is WW3, with all the crap happening. Is there any truth to that? Does anyone even know?
BTW, I heard that this is WW3, with all the crap happening. Is there any truth to that? Does anyone even know?
doubledown
Registered User
One more thing, liberal media.... Micheal Moore made the film "Bowling for Columbine" in which he did a "documentary" of the Columbine shootings and gun violence. This man is a discrace to the American people and to mankind. Yet for some reason the "unbiased" media seem to love him for some reason.
And I thought the majority of people in the service were more conservative. Why is Kimphil in the military, or thinking about going in, whichever is the case.
Let's get over parties and realize that just because you're a Republican, doesn't mean you're conservative (I'm thinking directly of John McCain).
And I thought the majority of people in the service were more conservative. Why is Kimphil in the military, or thinking about going in, whichever is the case.
Let's get over parties and realize that just because you're a Republican, doesn't mean you're conservative (I'm thinking directly of John McCain).
vegita1220
User
Doubledown...in the media's defense...wait not in their defense, exactly. It's just they're businessmen, and liberal slant sells in America apparently. Yeah they'll always play up some poor kid from Iowa who got his leg blown off in Iraq but that's b/c it sells. Nobody likes seeing the government do things right apparently. B/c to say the gov is screwing up everything like the media makes out is IMO just as naive as saying the gov is perfect.
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