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Guns and "Young" Ensigns
- Thread starter canav08
- Start date
Yes, things have changed and that is verboten nowadays.
Nowadays, it seems people wet themselves at the thought of an aviator even putting a loaded magazine in his/her weapon before being shot down. The amount of cluelessness and flat-out fear regarding firearms in Navy Air never ceases to amaze me. Is it too much to require that people be at least somewhat proficient in ALL their issued weapons, not just the big gray ones that you sit in? I swear the Marines are laughing at us, and with good reason.
I'm all for increased firearm training for aircrews, but on the other hand, the likelyhood of using a handgun in a survival situation that would significantly alter the outcome in your favor seems pretty remote. My presumption is that that factors into the calculus of how much money NAE spends on small arms training.
I know it's remote, but it's the principle of the thing. What's the chance we'd have to use SERE school, either?
It really depends on the service and deployment/location. My last deployment on our FOB we were required to be armed pretty much everywhere except the crapper. Medevac calls required a run to your aircraft with flight gear, an M9 and an M4. Any POI pickup required the crew chief to have M4 at the ready unless he was actually helping the medic. On a few occasions the crew chief had to aim at cars trying to run around stopped traffic. Luckily none of our crew chiefs had to open fire. occasionally we received ground fire in and out of the LZ but never at the LZ. Contrast that to our other FSMT during the same deployment at a much larger FOB/base. They almost never landed at a POI and could go to the PX or DFAC without a weapon.
My navy combat deployment was like others have said. Check your weapon in and out and try not to shoot yourself.
Different missions, different locations and different services.
My navy combat deployment was like others have said. Check your weapon in and out and try not to shoot yourself.
Different missions, different locations and different services.
My one Navy firearms sessions was a joke with everything from unprofessional and adversarial GM's 'teaching' us to some AO's shooting 3 to 4 times more than the aircrew who were going to actually carry. I'll make fun of the Army as much as I can but they really can teach any idiot how to shoot.
Hundreds of folks shot down in Vietnam and there were only two documented instances where an aircrew's firearm was utilized and worked out. One instance the guy was captured but only after he killed someone who was going to kill him and the other the guy was able to escape after shooting one of his captors while in the surf.
But yes, it is just an important morale component for aircrew and a valuable barter piece too!
One thing the Army took seriously, their weapons. A little too seriously sometimes but better that than the alternative.
707guy
"You can't make this shit up..."
It is a shame that someone who owns a handgun and is proficient with it is not allowed to have said weapon with them when their life depended on it. That being said I think the main reason my guys brought their own was because the "issue" weapon at that time was still the .38.
Common sense from a miltary perspective, it would be a pain in the ass to control and maintain a variety of weapons and associated ammo for each individual aircrew in a squadron. Better to have everyone learn a standard weapon than have a bunch of Rambo wannabes bail out of a plane and donate their favorite firearm to whoever captures them.
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FIFY
Bunch of BS. On the VFA side we trust guys with taking 80 mil jets with a damn 20mm cannon and more firepower than a squadron of WW2 B-17's, but they can't be trusted to have their own sidearm they are comfortable with because of training? You've already established previously that there have only been a couple occasions when someone successfully used their weapon. Since most of us haven't been shot down in enemy territory I'll just base my opinion on SERE, but if I'm in hostile territory as an unwanted guest, alone and unafraid, I'd at least have a major morale boost knowing I had a reliable piece of steel with me that I'd put 1000's of rounds through (preferably something besides a 9mm). Not something that has been carried and 'cleaned' by who knows who. How long has that 226 been sitting in a safe, unfired, and then exposed to salt air on a daily basis for years. Color me jaded or overreacting but this is just another BS castration on naval aviation traditions. I know this isn't a recent development, but I still remember reading about the guys that would carry pearl handled .45's with them into combat. Not saying that john Wayne shit is necessary, but I'm pretty sure if I had ended up in that situation, I'd want to feel as much like Rambo as I possibly could.
Edit: oh, and I'm sure the tipping point in the war on terrorism is that one Isis asshole getting his hands on my .45. God help us...
If you are a 4-star you could carry whatever the hell you wanted but even in WWII pretty much everyone else who wasn't special carried what was issued to them. There were some non-standard weapons carried in Vietnam by some but even then from accounts I have read standard issue was still the standard.
Either way it isn't going to happen at all, in any service. Even the guys who actually use their weapons regularly in combat have to use what is issued to them and not ep their favorite piece from home, the only folks who have a choice are still only the special types.
Only because I've seen it myself in Iraq, I'm going to add the Louisiana National Guard to that group as well. They definitely brought some firearms that were taken off the gun racks in their trucks...
