{GUN THREAD} Bye Bye 9mm

[Blutonski816]

A manual safety would be the most ridiculous thing to put on a SIG. It's safer WITHOUT it, god knows what kind of retard would hurt themselves with a manual safety on a SIG.

what he said...

plus, ambidextrous features just seem like too much of a fuss, IMO... I learned to use a right-handed weapon with my left hand without much fuss... I'm sure the Lefties in the Miltary can easily be trained to do the same...

and in reference to feddoc's post....

someone here mentioned the use of the pilot's sidearm as a useful item to trade with the locals as opposed to using it to shoot your way back to safety...

 

[ChuckMK23]

I gotta wonder exactly what an aircrew expects to do with his/her sidearm.

If you get down in bad guy country, they will most likely not be a couple of farmers armed with pitchforks.

What we used to teach during CSAR courses was that (assuming an evasion scenario) it would be more practical to have a high capacity .22 or .22mag as your sidearm....lower sound signature....since you are trying to survive (maybe kill a couple of small animals) instead of fight the war with a handgun (remember USN doesn't provide adquate training for this scenario) against soldiers with training and with rifles.

I carried a Grendel P-30 during GW I. .22 mag, 30 round magazine....sort of like an early Glock in composition. It also came with a threaded barrel.

I know in the AF right now, all aircrew (pilots, WSO, loadmaters, crewchiefs) are required to fly with a weapon anytime they are not in CONUS. I thik it's about force protection, etc than about SERE.

 

[MasterBates]

I carry a DoubleStack 1911. Works fine for me. Just gotta use good mags.

I only buy MecGar, and have 0 problems.

 

[A4sForever]

... Works fine for me. ....

And THAT is all you-all have to remember @ firearms.

And practice ... practice ... practice .....

 

[FMRAM]

No one said it wasn't a fine pistol. It's a very good gun. Sure, it's accurate and reliable (like most every other pistol out there), but it's ****ING HUGE and weighs a ton. That alone negates it's positives and makes it more a novelty than a contender for a standard service pistol -- it's the size of a Desert Eagle for gods sake. That, and the simple fact that it's stamped with "HK" on the slide results in it costing a lot more than it's worth. There is no reason to spend what a Mk23 costs for what you get. A plain USP will do the job the same..

If they want a hi-cap .45 that is US made, their options are rather limited. Doublestack 1911s (shudder), XDs, or USPs are about it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Springfield threw their hat in the ring for a service pistol competition. USPs are too pricey for such a scale. For sheer reliability, feeding of ANY ammo, and ease of maintenance though, they won't beat a Glock (made OCONUS, so not a player).

What's the problem with double-stack 1911's?

 

[A4sForever]

What's the problem with double-stack 1911's?

Probably nothing if they fit your hand --- or your hand fits them.

Of course, you realize it is blasphemy to "mess" with John Browning's finest moment :

 

[FMRAM]

Probably nothing if they fit your hand --- or your hand fits them.

Of course, you realize it is blasphemy to "mess" with John Browning's finest moment :

Honestly I dig everything about 1911s except for their relatively low capacity.

 

[bing]

I am glad this movement back to a 45 is being made. If or when the time comes to pull a side arm and fire, you will want the rounds to count.
A well trained user of a 45 will be more effective that a well trained user of a 9mm, in my humble opinion.

 

[squeeze]

I am glad this movement back to a 45 is being made. If or when the time comes to pull a side arm and fire, you will want the rounds to count.
A well trained user of a 45 will be more effective that a well trained user of a 9mm, in my humble opinion.

Your humble opinion doesn't agree with the laws of physics, but don't let that stop you from having it.

 

[bing]

which law is that?

 

[xmid]

Damn this guy keeps digging himself a hole.

 

[bing]

I am just curious. Is it the stopping power of a .45, or the the accuracy....?
I am no expert on small arms, but I have carried an M9 in combat and seen its limitations first hand.

 

[squeeze]

which law is that?

F=ma

...and just about every other ballistics study ever done

 

[squeeze]

I am just curious. Is it the stopping power of a .45, or the the accuracy....?
I am no expert on small arms, but I have carried an M9 in combat and seen its limitations first hand.

Accuracy is a horrible term to use to try and delineate multiple calibers, as different bullet designs will have different acceptable mil dispersions (the only real way to judge a particular rounds inherent accuracy). Shot placement is a better term. Shot placement trumps caliber EVERY SINGLE TIME.

The fact that the military uses ball ammo for the 9mm has everything to do with the perceived ineffectiveness of 9mm as a whole and nothing to do with its actual capabilities.

 

[Fly Navy]

The fact that the military uses ball ammo for the 9mm has everything to do with the perceived ineffectiveness of 9mm as whole and nothing to do with its actual capabilities.

Precisely. In fact, the 9mm ball is doing exactly what it is supposed to do... PENETRATE.