{GUN THREAD} Bye Bye 9mm

[AllAmerican75]

Holy Frijoles! Looks like the U.S. Military is going back to the old standard. Can't say I blame them.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20060127.aspx

 

[Brett327]

Holy Frijoles! Looks like the U.S. Military is going back to the old standard. Can't say I blame them.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20060127.aspx

Don't hold your breath. While the article references the M9 (Beretta), there are a bunch of M11 (Sig) in use and they'll continue to be the aviator's standard sidearm for years to come.

Brett

 

[squeeze]

There's nothing inherently wrong with the 9mm round. If you think otherwise, let me shoot you in the chest with a 9mm and tell me it isn't effective. Otherwise, shutup and stop buying the "OMG SMALL BULLETS SUCK" bullshit. The problem is more with the use of 9mm ball ammo and a shitty firearm like the Beretta 92.

 

[nittany03]

Umm . . . the article is referring to SOCOM, not the entire military. And I would agree with Squeeze. The three most important things are shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement. You could have a .50cal and it doesn't mean dick if you can' t hit anything with it.

(loving my new old Glock)

 

[metro]

Umm . . . the article is referring to SOCOM, not the entire military.

Actually, it says "After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon," not just SOCOM.

It does say SOCOM has the responsibility of finding the design that will be used, but doesn't say that SOCOM will be the only users.

I would like to see either the SIG P220, or the H&K Mark 23 be the new standard sidearm, frankly. I don't really know if there's anything I'd prefer to those two, if I couldn't have a nice 1911.

 

[Fly Navy]

H&K Mark 23

Why, because it looks cool and the SEALs use it? That's a GINORMOUS pistol, so much so that the SEALs don't typically use it, from what I understand.

 

[Brett327]

Actually, it says "After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon," not just SOCOM.

It does say SOCOM has the responsibility of finding the design that will be used, but doesn't say that SOCOM will be the only users.

I would like to see either the SIG P220, or the H&K Mark 23 be the new standard sidearm, frankly. I don't really know if there's anything I'd prefer to those two, if I couldn't have a nice 1911.

Metro gets an A+ for reading comprehension (while Nittany needs more attention to detail). While the referenced article could affect ground pounders in the long term, the SIG P228 currently in use is a fine weapon and the Navy has no incentive to replace it for use as the standard aviator's sidearm.

Brett

 

[squeeze]

or the H&K Mark 23 be the new standard sidearm, frankly. I don't really know if there's anything I'd prefer to those two

You've never actually USED a Mk23 have you?

 

[nittany03]

It does say SOCOM has the responsibility of finding the design that will be used, but doesn't say that SOCOM will be the only users.

OK, I know it references DoD at the beginning, but it struck me that this was a SOCOM thing that some reporter decided he would generalize into a military-wide thing. How many weapons would it take to outfit all of DoD with a new sidearm?

 

[phrogdriver]

OK, I know it references DoD at the beginning, but it struck me that this was a SOCOM thing that some reporter decided he would generalize into a military-wide thing. How many weapons would it take to outfit all of DoD with a new sidearm?

The article says the buy is 645000. That seems a bit large of an order for just SOCOM.

 

[Gatordev]

Metro gets an A+ for reading comprehension (while Nittany needs more attention to detail). While the referenced article could affect ground pounders in the long term, the SIG P228 currently in use is a fine weapon and the Navy has no incentive to replace it for use as the standard aviator's sidearm.

Brett

I believe you mean the P226, Brett. I agree, I can't imagine the aviation components would switch weapons after just buying the Sigs in the last 10 years or so. At least, I would hope they wouldn't waste their money that way.

 

[Fly Navy]

I believe you mean the P226, Brett. I agree, I can't imagine the aviation components would switch weapons after just buying the Sigs in the last 10 years or so. At least, I would hope they wouldn't waste their money that way.

I've never carried a M11, so please forgive me if I'm off-base here.... but I do know a M11 is a P228. P228s are hard to find on the civilian market because of the government contract. They're easily confused, as the P228 is only slightly smaller in size than a P226 (that and all of SIG's pistols look the same).

 

[Gatordev]

Hmmm, okay, well, maybe I'm wrong then. I could have sworn that the 9mm Sig we carried was called a P226. But as I've said before, I'm not a gun nut like you and Squeeze.

Here's a link I found in a quick search: http://www.sigarms.com/products/classicfullsize-models.asp?product_id=41

We also didn't have 15 round mags. I think it was 12, but I can't remember. I'll let you guys correct me accordingly.

 

[Fly Navy]

Hmmm, okay, well, maybe I'm wrong then. I could have sworn that the 9mm Sig we carried was called a P226. But as I've said before, I'm not a gun nut like you and Squeeze.

Here's a link I found in a quick search: http://www.sigarms.com/products/classicfullsize-models.asp?product_id=41

We also didn't have 15 round mags. I think it was 12, but I can't remember. I'll let you guys correct me accordingly.

Yeah, the P228 has a 12 or 13 round magazine, I can't remember. The easiest way to tell the difference at a glance is to look at the trigger guard. The P226 will have a "horn" on its, the P228's is rounded. Also, you can look at the length of the slide. In my opinion, the P228/P229 series is the perfect pistol. It fits the hand like a glove.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m11.htm

You can see in the picture there it is a P228.

Either way, P228 or P226, you're carrying one of the best pistols available

(First firearm I ever owned is a SIG P226 9mm)

 

[metro]

I've only fired the Mark 23 through two magazines, and only by invitation at a local range. Seemed like a fine pistol to me, but first impressions can be misleading, I guess. From my *very little* experience with it, it was a decent pistol.

Also, isn't/wasn't it the standard SOCOM sidearm for some time?