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Enlisted get a shot at a seat in the cockpit
- Thread starter HH-60H
- Start date
etnuclearsailor
STA 21 Nuclear OC
Isn't that what the flying CWO program is supposed to prevent? I understood the program to mean the Navy will hire fewer commissioned pilots in those communities. That way, you have the same number of pilots, but fewer of them are trying to get screened for DH. The CWO's can move on to other flying billets with no career penalty.
Is DH basically the first time that you will command a large group of sailors?
With the way the system is in the army you see way to many guys and gals getting command who no business being in command.
In defense of the Army Captain who posted earlier about not getting to fly.
When I went through flight training back in the early 90's I had 0-1's in my class who had no idea what warrant officers were doing in their flight school class. They aren't sold this when at West point or ROTC. They go into the whole thing thinking that they will be the ones doing the most of the flying. Then they get to a unit an reallity sets in. Very few flyign billets for 0-1 through 0-3. A captain in the army with 1200 hours is a high time pilot. A CW2with 1200 is still a cherry.
My point again is I think it won't fit in the Navy. I bet everyone of these 30 selected will have a B.S. already. It will just make it that much easier to make them all URL's when this goes south.
With the way the system is in the army you see way to many guys and gals getting command who no business being in command.
In defense of the Army Captain who posted earlier about not getting to fly.
When I went through flight training back in the early 90's I had 0-1's in my class who had no idea what warrant officers were doing in their flight school class. They aren't sold this when at West point or ROTC. They go into the whole thing thinking that they will be the ones doing the most of the flying. Then they get to a unit an reallity sets in. Very few flyign billets for 0-1 through 0-3. A captain in the army with 1200 hours is a high time pilot. A CW2with 1200 is still a cherry.
My point again is I think it won't fit in the Navy. I bet everyone of these 30 selected will have a B.S. already. It will just make it that much easier to make them all URL's when this goes south.
okay 75%.
In my experience, there aren't a lot of enlisted Sailors running around with degrees - once in a while, but fairly unusual. If they already had degrees, they would be well advised to apply for a direct accession commissioning in lieu of the infinitely more competitive CWO/LDO program.bobbybrock said:
Brett
bobbybrock said:
I would say that depending on what track you take as a JO (downstairs in Maint. or upstairs as the Aircrew DivO), DH might not be the first time you command a large group, but it's the first time you're guarenteed to command a large group.
Sabre170 said:
What is a TACMO? TACCO.
Been flying P-3s for almost 6 years, never seen a CWO in a flying bilet.
No way anyone is going to get "OJT" and then considered qualified, especially in VP.
You're probably talking about the LDOs who went through a few years ago. Another test program that didn't really pan out. Great program that enabled some stellar AWs to become LDOs, go through the entire pipeline, and man up as NFOs.
fudog50
Registered User
P-3 Flying CWO's
I was P-3's West Coast for 12 years, 86-98. (Never saw a single squadron, including the three was I in, 19, 40, 48 have more than 10 A/C at a time except VP-31) Anyway there was a test program around 95-96 where there were I think 5? CWO flight engineers, I know one of them personally, also there are flying AW CWO's currently out there, a buddy of mine got picked up in 98, he is currently a CWO4 at a TSC, doing his shore duty tour.
I like this new program, I wish it was around when I was a young E-5 I woulda jumped on it! That being said there are some real strange things about it. Why make them CWO's? Why not just bring back the ALDO program? First of all here is an example, not saying its bad, just weird: A CWO3 maintenance guy with 24 years making close to 5 g's in base pay, sitting in the same wardroom as a CWO3 flyer making more than a g less in base pay? and the 15 year age difference? Weird. Plus that same CWO never went through Chiefs Initiation and has the honor of having Chief in his title? Weird.
(Here is the big difference between why LDO/CWO Charm school is different than OCS. We are already commissioned officers when going through the training, OCS folks are not. That is one reason why there is no Gunny's hollering at you in Knife Fork school, not to mention we are way beyond that type of training.) Anyway I look forward to seeing you all deal with this new human capital strategy science project, I will be retired by the time it is implemented. Good Luck!
I was P-3's West Coast for 12 years, 86-98. (Never saw a single squadron, including the three was I in, 19, 40, 48 have more than 10 A/C at a time except VP-31) Anyway there was a test program around 95-96 where there were I think 5? CWO flight engineers, I know one of them personally, also there are flying AW CWO's currently out there, a buddy of mine got picked up in 98, he is currently a CWO4 at a TSC, doing his shore duty tour.
I like this new program, I wish it was around when I was a young E-5 I woulda jumped on it! That being said there are some real strange things about it. Why make them CWO's? Why not just bring back the ALDO program? First of all here is an example, not saying its bad, just weird: A CWO3 maintenance guy with 24 years making close to 5 g's in base pay, sitting in the same wardroom as a CWO3 flyer making more than a g less in base pay? and the 15 year age difference? Weird. Plus that same CWO never went through Chiefs Initiation and has the honor of having Chief in his title? Weird.
(Here is the big difference between why LDO/CWO Charm school is different than OCS. We are already commissioned officers when going through the training, OCS folks are not. That is one reason why there is no Gunny's hollering at you in Knife Fork school, not to mention we are way beyond that type of training.) Anyway I look forward to seeing you all deal with this new human capital strategy science project, I will be retired by the time it is implemented. Good Luck!
(A) I have never seen any CWO FE's...maybe it happened in the past...but I've never seen/heard of/been exposed to any CWO FE's in a flying billet in an active duty squadron. In P-3s. I've worked with AMDOs who WERE FEs.
(B) I'll buy that there are CWOs out there still doing their AW gig. At TSCs maybe. Hell, maybe even at VP-30. But I've never seen one in an AD squadron. If they are out there, as Wardroom personnel, I wouldn't be suprised if they were in Jax, for a number of political reasons
edit: this is directed at Sabre's post.
(B) I'll buy that there are CWOs out there still doing their AW gig. At TSCs maybe. Hell, maybe even at VP-30. But I've never seen one in an AD squadron. If they are out there, as Wardroom personnel, I wouldn't be suprised if they were in Jax, for a number of political reasons
edit: this is directed at Sabre's post.
Please forgive the ignorance as I am still in trainning and happen to still put to much weight into what instructors have to say...
But the two I personally talked to here in San Antonio have said there was a CWO who was the TACCO in her squadron and the the other instructor said he knew of a couple CWOs in the community. I do not think the CWOs were pilots but NFOs of some sort. Both instructors had good things to say and were in favor of this program.
But the two I personally talked to here in San Antonio have said there was a CWO who was the TACCO in her squadron and the the other instructor said he knew of a couple CWOs in the community. I do not think the CWOs were pilots but NFOs of some sort. Both instructors had good things to say and were in favor of this program.