Active Duty Warrant Officer Flying Program
This is the first thread I have started, but this is big IMO.
Check this out
This is the first thread I have started, but this is big IMO.
Check this out
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Enlisted get a shot at a seat in the cockpit
- Thread starter HH-60H
- Start date
wow, concur with your assessment -60H.
isn't this an idea that has been tossed around numerous times in the past, and i don't mean like the 20s and 30s. i know they had enlisted pilots then, but over the past 30yrs?
i guess having enlisted pilots around would free up time for me to attend to my future desk job...joy of joys.
isn't this an idea that has been tossed around numerous times in the past, and i don't mean like the 20s and 30s. i know they had enlisted pilots then, but over the past 30yrs?
i guess having enlisted pilots around would free up time for me to attend to my future desk job...joy of joys.
This is exactly for freeing up time for career enhancing jobs. The idea is to have fewer "competetive" JOs in the communities listed to allow for a better selection rate for Dept Head and CO. It's kind of like what the Brits and Germans do with their guys who just want to fly their entire career, the only difference is we'll be using CWOs.
Don't forget the cost issue. After reading the message, I compared the pay scale (thank you last week's Navy Times) for an O-3 with 8 years (guy on his shore tour who could go back to a sea billet, sounds familiar) vs. a CWO2. Roughly 30 grand (uncorrected for time in service). Even a CWO2 with 8 years is 62K vs the O-3 at 80K.
Gotta wonder if it pays off, considering the cost per person for flight school.
Damn shame they won't consider the "career pilot" gig A4s talked about a while back (http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10682&page=3&highlight=FLYING+WARRANT, post 47). Hell, I'd do at least another 6 years as an O-3 if it meant staying in a cockpit. I know plenty of guys (already quall'ed and current in their platforms) who'd do the same.
edit: I was one of the disbelievers who poo-poo'd this as plausible. I concede.
Gotta wonder if it pays off, considering the cost per person for flight school.
Damn shame they won't consider the "career pilot" gig A4s talked about a while back (http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10682&page=3&highlight=FLYING+WARRANT, post 47). Hell, I'd do at least another 6 years as an O-3 if it meant staying in a cockpit. I know plenty of guys (already quall'ed and current in their platforms) who'd do the same.
edit: I was one of the disbelievers who poo-poo'd this as plausible. I concede.
Sure, sounds good for you to do lots of time as an O-3 and keep flying, but the cost factor is still better to have a CWO do it, and gets better every year you stay an O-3 with longevity raises. O-3s will get higher pay raises than CWOs. Sounds a little like the airlines, we've started pricing ourselves out of the market!
A6-EA6 said:
Oh I agree. I think any claims that this is designed to "fill gaps" in wardrooms are smoke and mirrors. I know for a fact that my YG is overmanned for VP and something like 2/3 of us will not make DH (ie, not at the RAG, naga naga nagannaflyanymore, at least not with VP). Plenty of quall'ed folks. Once again, honor is in the dollar.
I'm going to go back to editing my resume and eating my sour grapes.
I don't know how this will work out. I think it would defintely change the culture of the wardroom a bit. I have talked to several Army WO's and there are some issues there, we even had one or two on the board a few months back that made some commetns to that effect. Are they here any more, I would love to get their take on things.
Talking to Army O-4/5 types, they do a lot mroe paperwork than flying
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Talking to Army O-4/5 types, they do a lot mroe paperwork than flying
.A6-EA6 said:
I not sure this will have the intended effect. You are reducing the number of JOs, but not the number of DHs (specifically mentioned in the message). DH screening is not that competative to begin with (in HSL I think the last board was around 85%), so there is little gain there. You still would have the same number of DHs competing for the #1 EP in order to screen for command.
There was a lot of discussion about this in my command this morning, but most people just decided it would have little effect on them.
ghost
Cynic to the end, the Navy does not seem to know what to do with CWO/WO's. In the late 1950's "super grade enlisted technical managers", read E-8 and E-9, were to be created that replace CWO/WO's. E-/8/9 were created; input to WO program stopped/curtailed, for a while. Several years later, new idea, CWO/WO's were going to be retained, reinvigorated and would replace the LDO's. LDO program input was put on ice for a while, then a new idea, lets bring back LDO program. Early VietNam (circa 1965) CWO's were going to be Helo drivers.
This new go-round seems to exclude some very important, albeit short manned, enlisted ratings. On the surface, seems unfair?
My thoughts: Do not hold your breath awaiting some impact of this new initiative.
This new go-round seems to exclude some very important, albeit short manned, enlisted ratings. On the surface, seems unfair?
My thoughts: Do not hold your breath awaiting some impact of this new initiative.
Awhile back we were told that the HTs have to increase pilot production 16% this coming year. If this many new helo pilots are needed, maybe this program is a way to contribute to this increasing need over the next couple of years. This might allow the community to grow as projected but keep some costs down.
Enlisted Pilots
RNLN had till the mid '80s enlisted Pilot in their cockpits (fixed- and rotary wings). Ran into trouble when the average TACCO was a highly skilled mission commander and the airplane commander called the shots in front...
Also on deployed facilities the Officer went to the Officer Barracks while the aircraft commander could end up in sleeping barracks with the enlisted which were normally 16 to 18 youngsters populated the bunks.
Every enlisted pilot got the chance to follow a programm and they almost all became an Officer (except one).
RNLN had till the mid '80s enlisted Pilot in their cockpits (fixed- and rotary wings). Ran into trouble when the average TACCO was a highly skilled mission commander and the airplane commander called the shots in front...
Also on deployed facilities the Officer went to the Officer Barracks while the aircraft commander could end up in sleeping barracks with the enlisted which were normally 16 to 18 youngsters populated the bunks.
Every enlisted pilot got the chance to follow a programm and they almost all became an Officer (except one).
LoneSailor
Registered User
Wow this is definitely big news. Why wasn't there any news of this prior to the message being released? At least I haven't heard of anything leading up to this.