DCO Intel questions

[bubblehead]

DCOIC has been a thing for a long time. It was 2 weeks in Newport and before that, Pensacola.

ODS has always been an active duty school for newly commissioned Docs, Jags, and others, and the Reserve finally wised up to the fact that DCOIC was a complete joke and a disservice to off the street folks who were commissioned.

ODS is where it's at. While it's a burden on Reservists to attend, it's the right thing to do.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

DCOIC has been a thing for a long time. It was 2 weeks in Newport and before that, Pensacola.

ODS has always been an active duty school for newly commissioned Docs, Jags, and others, and the Reserve finally wised up to the fact that DCOIC was a complete joke and a disservice to off the street folks who were commissioned.

ODS is where it's at. While it's a burden on Reservists to attend, it's the right thing to do.

I can say I don't remember any literature or anything referring to DCOIC at the NRD, it was all OCS or ODS, maybe it was an NRD thing where they just didn't refer to it properly.

 

[a_dub]

DCOIC has been a thing for a long time. It was 2 weeks in Newport and before that, Pensacola.

ODS has always been an active duty school for newly commissioned Docs, Jags, and others, and the Reserve finally wised up to the fact that DCOIC was a complete joke and a disservice to off the street folks who were commissioned.

ODS is where it's at. While it's a burden on Reservists to attend, it's the right thing to do.

Well I'll disagree, specifically prior navy reservists certainly do not need to attend ODS, so in my opinion it isn't the 'right thing to do,' in fact, it is a waste of tax dollars and time. I think a little bit of critical thinking instead of blanket mentality would show DCOIC is more than adequate for people who meet some type of TIS and are reservists. Having just finished ODS I have some relative insight, mostly stemming from sitting through countless hours of power points that brought zero new information. Having a few priors in the class with 70 new folks, while big navy may think this will automatically harbor some type of mentoring culture, the reality is that isn't the case, it wasn't with my class nor with the 3 classes ahead of mine. Fresh out of school kids (RNs/Docs/JAGs/etc) have a different outlook and should all benefit from going through the stuff together as new accessions, other service priors make sense to attend to get adjusted to the culture, but at the end of the day, there was truly zero benefit for the handful of us who had 10+ years in the navy and were reservists to attend ODS. While this post may present some type of bitter tone, there isn't really any better way to say what needs to be said. Additionally, with so much down time overall, often times it was hours between events with nothing to do (contrary to the overly used line of 'your schedule is so packed, it'll be a challenge to get it all done) during the course and having weekends off (2 days over 2 weekends post-ROM (4 days of waste), which, with COVID you cant leave the base anyways) the course is already a week longer than it could be.

 

[Flash]

Well I'll disagree, specifically prior navy reservists certainly do not need to attend ODS, so in my opinion it isn't the 'right thing to do,' in fact, it is a waste of tax dollars and time. I think a little bit of critical thinking instead of blanket mentality would show DCOIC is more than adequate for people who meet some type of TIS and are reservists....there was truly zero benefit for the handful of us who had 10+ years in the navy and were reservists to attend ODS...Additionally, with so much down time overall, often times it was hours between events with nothing to do...

An officer accession program in some form or another is a pretty firm requirement for pretty much all new officers in the military, while certainly not ideal it just so happens that ODS is the best fit for Navy Reserve DCO's. COVID restrictions have probably scrambled things a bit with the schedule and that could account for the excessive downtime.

While it might seem a waste to you I think it would be a bad idea to start making exceptions for folks as each person's experience is different, and that includes prior service folks. There has to be some sort of standard and starting point, and for DCO's ODS is it.

 

[bubblehead]

While it might seem a waste to you I think it would be a bad idea to start making exceptions for folks as each person's experience is different, and that includes prior service folks. There has to be some sort of standard and starting point, and for DCO's ODS is it.

Agree... 100%... Which is why I like the way the Marine Corps operates. Every officer goes to The Basic School. Period. End of discussion.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

Well I'll disagree, specifically prior navy reservists certainly do not need to attend ODS, so in my opinion it isn't the 'right thing to do,' in fact, it is a waste of tax dollars and time. I think a little bit of critical thinking instead of blanket mentality would show DCOIC is more than adequate for people who meet some type of TIS and are reservists.

I have to disagree.

In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of officer accession school for everyone. And two weeks of DCO training doesn't cut it. Prior service means nothing in my experience. In fact, some of the weakest and most useless OCS candidates in my OCS class were prior enlisted. Some quit after the first week. Thankfully, OCS successfully screened them out before they were given an opportunity to be put in charge of people in the fleet.

It isn't too much to ask that people asking for a reserve commission do a six week school that is much much easier than any other commissioning source.

 

[bubblehead]

Some quit after the first week.

All that work getting into OCS, all for nothing ??

 

[nodropinufaka]

Well I'll disagree, specifically prior navy reservists certainly do not need to attend ODS, so in my opinion it isn't the 'right thing to do,' in fact, it is a waste of tax dollars and time. I think a little bit of critical thinking instead of blanket mentality would show DCOIC is more than adequate for people who meet some type of TIS and are reservists. Having just finished ODS I have some relative insight, mostly stemming from sitting through countless hours of power points that brought zero new information. Having a few priors in the class with 70 new folks, while big navy may think this will automatically harbor some type of mentoring culture, the reality is that isn't the case, it wasn't with my class nor with the 3 classes ahead of mine. Fresh out of school kids (RNs/Docs/JAGs/etc) have a different outlook and should all benefit from going through the stuff together as new accessions, other service priors make sense to attend to get adjusted to the culture, but at the end of the day, there was truly zero benefit for the handful of us who had 10+ years in the navy and were reservists to attend ODS. While this post may present some type of bitter tone, there isn't really any better way to say what needs to be said. Additionally, with so much down time overall, often times it was hours between events with nothing to do (contrary to the overly used line of 'your schedule is so packed, it'll be a challenge to get it all done) during the course and having weekends off (2 days over 2 weekends post-ROM (4 days of waste), which, with COVID you cant leave the base anyways) the course is already a week longer than it could be.

Honest question....

Why do you think prior service makes you qualified to be an officer?

 

[bubblehead]

Why do you think prior service makes you qualified to be an officer?

Newsflash: it does not.

Served with an 1835 who was a prior Enlisted IT. Guy had a sh*tty attitude and chip on his shoulder the entire time I knew him. He got an adverse FITREP while on his mobilization which had the effect of him 2xFOS for O4. That glitch was fixed.

I've bumped into a few of these, including an ISC turned 1835 who cannot seem to let go of the "Chief-ness."

 

[link6]

Newsflash: it does not.

Served with an 1835 who was a prior Enlisted IT. Guy had a sh*tty attitude and chip on his shoulder the entire time I knew him. He got an adverse FITREP while on his mobilization which had the effect of him 2xFOS for O4. That glitch was fixed.

I've bumped into a few of these, including an ISC turned 1835 who cannot seem to let go of the "Chief-ness."

I mean, it absolutely makes a given person more qualified than they would otherwise be if they hadn't served. As you noted, however, that does not automatically translate into making that person an effective officer. But all else held equal, mustangs know "how to military" on Day 1 and tend to have a much easier time building a meaningful rapport with their troops. Not that sentiment is a measure of effectiveness, but it seems that the overwhelming sentiment among enlisted troops across the branches is that mustangs make better officers (although elements of tribalism and anti-elitism are almost certainly factoring in, there). If the job is to lead troops, then biasing commissions toward people who have actually been troops themselves is an obvious heuristic.

Some views on this topic: https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/10/should-all-officers-be-prior-enlisted/

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Newsflash: it does not.

Served with an 1835 who was a prior Enlisted IT. Guy had a sh*tty attitude and chip on his shoulder the entire time I knew him. He got an adverse FITREP while on his mobilization which had the effect of him 2xFOS for O4. That glitch was fixed.

I've bumped into a few of these, including an ISC turned 1835 who cannot seem to let go of the "Chief-ness."

This may be a bit of an exaggeration however I have known many prior enlisted that have done well, and there take on it is the majority of prior enlisted fall into 2 groups, one group becomes great officers drawing from their experiences and applying it in a positive way, the other group becomes the officers you don't want to deal with as they can't let go of "Chief-ness"/always say "when I was enlisted"/believe they are now "in power".

Some of the ones I served with that ended up being substandard were guys that before going to be commissioned were more excited about getting to live in a stateroom, better food, and not about their new job.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

My experience is that being an Officer is so incredibly different from being enlisted that there isn't a whole lot of crossover.

What is the saying from Tommy Boy?
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."

A good Officer listens to the enlisted leadership.

 

[a_dub]

Honest question....

Why do you think prior service makes you qualified to be an officer?

I never said it does. I stated my opinion that prior service, specifically reservists, should have the option for a shorter class such as DCOIC.

Newsflash: it does not.

Served with an 1835 who was a prior Enlisted IT. Guy had a sh*tty attitude and chip on his shoulder the entire time I knew him. He got an adverse FITREP while on his mobilization which had the effect of him 2xFOS for O4. That glitch was fixed.

I've bumped into a few of these, including an ISC turned 1835 who cannot seem to let go of the "Chief-ness."

Cool story bro, again, I never said being a prior E was an automatic pass. However, learning to march, make racks, learning rank structure, and the like was time and money not well spent and presented the argument that having everybody attend ODS was not as simple as the 'it is the right thing to do,' and DCOIC should be a consideration for people who meet some type of TIS and were reservists.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I never said it does. I stated my opinion that prior service, specifically reservists, should have the option for a shorter class such as DCOIC.



Cool story bro, again, I never said being a prior E was an automatic pass. However, learning to march, make racks, learning rank structure, and the like was time and money not well spent and presented the argument that having everybody attend ODS was not as simple as the 'it is the right thing to do,' and DCOIC should be a consideration for people who meet some type of TIS and were reservists.

I think you have an extremely skewed perception of what you do at OCS.

you barely do any of that stuff.

 

[Brett327]

Well I'll disagree, specifically prior navy reservists certainly do not need to attend ODS, so in my opinion it isn't the 'right thing to do,' in fact, it is a waste of tax dollars and time.

As the others have posted, I also absolutely disagree. Frankly, I showed up for OCS as a First Class with the same sentiment, but going through that process changed me in very important ways, and helped me frame aspects of my leadership style. It's a wake up call, and a reminder that you have zero experience as an officer - zero. The extreme attention to detail with severe consequences for failure is a good primer for people who will operate weapons systems, employ deadly force, and be responsible for people's lives.