COVID-19

[Gatordev]

In addition to the breakdown of J&J numbers, pretty sure blood clots =\= death for those 6 women...

I'm not arguing against the J&J vaccine, as @sevenhelmet has already made a solid argument, but... I would say that clots are a lot more nuanced than dead/not dead. A DVT can end badly if left alone and a PE may not even be recognized until it's too late. One can also make a full recovery, but it's not an inexpensive or insignificant process (having dealt with this last year).

It did sound like the clots required a different treatment process, but I'm fuzzy on the details as the news stories I've heard tend to mention it, but not go into more detail. It did sound like the women did have to receive treatment, though.

 

[SlickAg]

I'm not arguing against the J&J vaccine, as @sevenhelmet has already made a solid argument, but... I would say that clots are a lot more nuanced than dead/not dead. A DVT can end badly if left alone and a PE may not even be recognized until it's too late. One can also make a full recovery, but it's not an inexpensive or insignificant process (having dealt with this last year).

It did sound like the clots required a different treatment process, but I'm fuzzy on the details as the news stories I've heard tend to mention it, but not go into more detail. It did sound like the women did have to receive treatment, though.

I think the chickens may be coming home to roost in a way; any potential for negative side effects was so downplayed, regardless of which vaccine, that the first major issue was bound to be a major news story, and rightly so.

Now, whether or not that risk is justified is, I think, best left to individuals and their doctors. (Edit: and most notably, NOT one’s military chain of command.). But this is another reason why I’m still not crazy about vaccinating kids with this stuff (not to mention that there’s adults around the world who are MUCH more likely to be effected by covid and should probably get it first).

But there’s been people who’ve been warning about the potential of dangerous side effects, like Alex Berenson, and they have been roundly dismissed by all of the corona truthers as conspiracy theorists or anti-vaxxer or far right-wing and have had their commentary flagged or even censored by Big Tech for “going against the program”.

I also think it’s interesting how so many people are now all of a sudden concerned with statistics in terms of likely death or bad outcome from either the vaccine or covid.

 

[Gatordev]

I think the chickens may be coming home to roost in a way; any potential for negative side effects was so downplayed, regardless of which vaccine, that the first major issue was bound to be a major news story, and rightly so.

Now, whether or not that risk is justified is, I think, best left to individuals and their doctors.

It's certainly possible, and I agree, the first stumble would no doubt be jumped on by the media. I also agree and appreciate your second thought.

I also think it’s interesting how so many people are now all of a sudden concerned with statistics in terms of likely death or bad outcome from either the vaccine or covid.

I fear this may be regional, which is not to say that I don't think it's a bad thing, at all. But it seems like some regions are more inquisitive than others.

 

[SlickAg]

I fear this may be regional, which is not to say that I don't think it's a bad thing, at all. But it seems like some regions are more inquisitive than others.

I think it's fairly obvious that there is some seasonality to covid and that there appears to be some factor of latitude involved; which would explain why Michigan is doing worse with a mask mandate than Texas without one and unlimited reopening of the economy. Is there more to it than that? Certainly. However, comparing our nation's overall response to small European countries or island nations is a bad faith comparison. It's probably not even completely fair to compare different state's responses to each other due to all of the different factors that go into it. Vermont and Arizona do not need the same sort of policy when it comes to immigration, and they don't need the same policy when it comes to covid. While people seem to decry "red states" and "Trump states" for their responses and not taking it seriously enough, the voters in those states have made it clear that they value individual freedom over government mandates and interference. They're probably also much more likely to place more emphasis on a state and/or regional identity. So they're also going to have different societal norms and mores. Our national leadership is trying to perform surgery with a hatchet. Our country isn't a one size fits all sort of place (except if the size is XXL), so our covid response should be more nuanced as well.

 

[Jim123]

For your anti-political viewing pleasure.

(PG-13 for crude language and insensitivity to fat people- and hate on partisanship.)

 

[taxi1]

So explain to us again about how Michigan is doing so well with their mask mandate?

Probably the variants (they're in Michigan in greater numbers than elsewhere) and lack of compliance with mandates.

My point is that wearing masks doesn’t do shit except make you look like a fool.

At this point in the game, anyone who thinks masks don't work is a moron.

Case in point from the state of Michigan...

At least four, and potentially more than eight, Michigan Republicans who attended a district meeting at a Portage restaurant on March 25 tested positive for COVID-19 afterward, according to GOP officials.

Jason Watts, an Allegan County Republican and the treasurer for the 6th District Republican Committee, has been in the hospital for five days. He tested positive for COVID-19 on April 1 and is certain he was exposed to the virus at the regular meeting of the district organization, he said in a Tuesday phone interview from a hospital room in Grand Rapids.

"This meeting is what's happening in a lot of districts," Watts said. "They're not following the guidelines. I would say, at most, that room should have had 40 people there.

"The people in charge did not care."

Watts estimated that about three of the 69 people in attendance for the March 25 gathering were wearing masks. From what he's heard, he said he believes at least 10 people who were there later tested positive for COVID-19.

Scott McGraw, chairman of the 6th District Republican Committee, provided slightly different tallies. McGraw said about 50 people attended the meeting and four to eight people later tested positive for the virus. McGraw said he knows of four people who tested positive and has heard about four others.

"Most of them in that room are not believers in the vaccine," McGraw said. "That’s something we’ve got to contend with.”

Southwest Michigan Republicans test positive for COVID after meeting (detroitnews.com)

 

[scoolbubba]

But I thought lockdowns worked. How did the variants get to Michigan? Didn't Governor Whitmer's Fauci Pillow protect them?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Probably the variants (they're in Michigan in greater numbers than elsewhere) and lack of compliance with mandates.

At this point in the game, anyone who thinks masks don't work is a moron.

Case in point from the state of Michigan...

At least four, and potentially more than eight, Michigan Republicans who attended a district meeting at a Portage restaurant on March 25 tested positive for COVID-19 afterward, according to GOP officials.

Jason Watts, an Allegan County Republican and the treasurer for the 6th District Republican Committee, has been in the hospital for five days. He tested positive for COVID-19 on April 1 and is certain he was exposed to the virus at the regular meeting of the district organization, he said in a Tuesday phone interview from a hospital room in Grand Rapids.

"This meeting is what's happening in a lot of districts," Watts said. "They're not following the guidelines. I would say, at most, that room should have had 40 people there.

"The people in charge did not care."

Watts estimated that about three of the 69 people in attendance for the March 25 gathering were wearing masks. From what he's heard, he said he believes at least 10 people who were there later tested positive for COVID-19.

Scott McGraw, chairman of the 6th District Republican Committee, provided slightly different tallies. McGraw said about 50 people attended the meeting and four to eight people later tested positive for the virus. McGraw said he knows of four people who tested positive and has heard about four others.

"Most of them in that room are not believers in the vaccine," McGraw said. "That’s something we’ve got to contend with.”

Southwest Michigan Republicans test positive for COVID after meeting (detroitnews.com)

Thanks for that compelling evidence. Keep wearing your face diaper if you want. It’s pointless theater. Hell, wear two even after being vaccinated like dipshits Fauci and Biden for all I care.

 

[taxi1]

We'll get to herd immunity at some point, it just seems supremely moronic to do it via infection instead of vaccination.

 

[scoolbubba]

We'll get to herd immunity at some point, it just seems supremely moronic to do it via infection instead of vaccination.

Serologic prevalence shows we're rapidly approaching it. States that rejected harsh lockdowns are getting there much faster, states that delayed it are seeing huge rises in cases as they slowly reopen. lockdowns didn't work. keeping the whole country in a harsh lockdown til the vaccines were widely available in 16-20 months was 1. not possible without massive damage, and 2. not a sure thing.

The hospitals in states that rejected lockdowns also did not get overrun, which was the whole raison d'etre for said lockdowns. Seems pretty silly to keep clinging to a demonstrably ineffective NPI. What's the definition of insanity?

 

[taxi1]

lockdowns didn't work, they just delayed the inevitable.

We are putting millions of shots into arms every day. All those people are people are not going to experience "the inevitable" if we can just hold our shit together for another month or two.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

We are putting millions of shots into arms every day. All those people are people are not going to experience "the inevitable" if we can just hold our shit together for another month or two.

Good thing we prioritized those at risk, for the most part. If the elderly are vaccinated, young people getting it just speeds us along.

 

[taxi1]

Good thing we prioritized those at risk, for the most part. If the elderly are vaccinated, young people getting it just speeds us along.

Pretty much.

My son (30) got the J&J the day before they stopped it. They just need to have people sign waivers and get on with it.

 

[scoolbubba]

Pretty much.

My son (30) got the J&J the day before they stopped it. They just need to have people sign waivers and get on with it.

The stopping of the jnj is another symptom of the disease that is out of whack risk analysis. I'm glad they took it seriously, but the wholesale stopping of shots will inevitably lead to more deaths than stopping it will prevent.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Stopping J&J vaccinations over six clots out of 7 million doses, all in women of child bearing age that already are more likely to have that condition makes no sense. Or I guess it makes about as much sense as fully vaccinated socially distant POTUS wondering how he can still smell his burger through not one but two masks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383393799976542211

Then top it off by wondering why we’re about to run out of people wanting to get vaccinated. Stop pretending the vaccines don’t work.