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COVID-19

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
It still doesn't explain something like what's happening in Oregon. If masks work so well, then why aren't they working there? Is the science different in the Pacific Northwest?

Oregon is an interesting example of the media not catching the full story. The state is pretty much not on board with the current CDC recs, outside of a few population centers (and governor's mandates). Mask use is low pretty much everywhere other than urban Portland (in spite of mandates), and so are vaccination take rates, outside of cities/pop centers. I'd submit that in terms of metrics, the state as a whole isn't that different from MO, AR, TX, FL or any of the other places that pro-mask folks are taking pot shots at.
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
Oregon is an interesting example of the media not catching the full story. The state is pretty much not on board with the current CDC recs, outside of a few population centers (and governor's mandates). Mask use is low pretty much everywhere other than urban Portland (in spite of mandates), and so are vaccination take rates, outside of cities/pop centers. I'd submit that in terms of metrics, the state as a whole isn't that different from MO, AR, TX, FL or any of the other places that pro-mask folks are taking pot shots at.
That was sort of my point. Mask mandates don’t make sense because they defy human nature.

I think people are starting to catch on that the whole two weeks to flatten the curve thing is about to become two years and then two decades. People should feel free to protect themselves and their families as they see fit. And that includes, vaccines, masks, and social distancing.

When I went to to the grocery store today I couldn’t help but think about the people wearing masks and pushing their carts full of groceries (so not a “oh I’ll just grab a few things on the way home” stop). If they were really so concerned about catching or spreading covid, why didn’t they take advantage of the free curbside grocery pickup option that the store is offering? If you really are that scared, why would you not just stay in your car where the most interaction you have with another human is them telling you if there were any substitutions and then putting your groceries in your trunk?
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
That it contradicts the Danish mask study from last year. So we’re back to square one.
It doesn't contradict the Danish study, because the Danish study was not conclusive.
...flatten the curve thing.
There is no curve for the vaccinated. Just the unvaccinated, but unfortunately they keep clogging up the hospitals.
If you really are that scared...
They're not that scared. They are just team players.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
When I went to to the grocery store today I couldn’t help but think about the people wearing masks and pushing their carts full of groceries (so not a “oh I’ll just grab a few things on the way home” stop). If they were really so concerned about catching or spreading covid, why didn’t they take advantage of the free curbside grocery pickup option that the store is offering? If you really are that scared, why would you not just stay in your car where the most interaction you have with another human is them telling you if there were any substitutions and then putting your groceries in your trunk?
I doubt many of them are doing it out of some altruistic 'I might have the virus but not know I have the virus' motivation. Some of them probably believe they're protecting themselves (they are, but they're improving their own odds only a tiny amount). Some of them are virtue signaling, I guarantee it. These days, the random masked person in the crowd of grocery shoppers seems strange to me, but it remains their freedom to do that.

On virtue signaling, that's about as freedom of speech as it gets. People signal all kinds of stuff, bumper stickers and what kind of car they drive, flags and signs at their house, politicians, political slogans, you name it. If their way of saying "we're all in this together" is to wear a flimsy cloth mask everywhere in public, then to me that falls under the old cliché, "I disagree with what you're saying but I'll defend your right to say it."


On a similar note,

There was a college prof in Georgia who quit last week because one of his students refused to mask up. The school policy doesn't have mandatory masking and he was asking his students to voluntarily wear masks because he has a few comorbidities himself. I suppose there's nothing wrong with asking (that's what asking is), and it's his prerogative to quit his job if he doesn't like it when people don't agree to what he's asking. On the surface that seems unfortunate, but his angle was that he could die of covid (his phrase) so the should mask up. Ummmm wait a second- you could die of covid but you're not willing to take greater protective measures yourself?? (In other words wear a fitted, tight-sealing N95 mask.) His parting quote was how he has "risked my[his] life to defend my country while in the Air Force." Nice try with the bro vet angle, but America isn't about twenty-five people going out of their way to protect one person who won't take responsibility to protect themselves. Happy retirement, sir.
 
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MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
That was sort of my point. Mask mandates don’t make sense because they defy human nature.

That is a valid point. I look at it like people wearing raincoats in a rainstorm. Better raincoats will keep you more dry, though not entirely. A crappy raincoat with holes won't keep you dry. If we were to study raincoat effectiveness on a large, statistically significant population, is it realistic to imagine that we could reliably capture the split between good raincoat, bad raincoat, and no raincoat? What value would such a study have if we couldn't? I'm also not a scientist, so maybe I have a knowledge gap on how studies like this are performed, but I guess my point is that there are a lot of unknowns (or maybe even unknown-unknowns) that have a real impact on results.
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
It doesn't contradict the Danish study, because the Danish study was not conclusive.

There is no curve for the vaccinated. Just the unvaccinated, but unfortunately they keep clogging up the hospitals.

They're not that scared. They are just team players.
You know how we could really tell if they were team players? Some outward sign of covid vaccination status! Isn’t that a great idea? We can visually categorize people based off of a medical status. Wouldn’t that be something?

And let me guess, if we all wore masks and locked down for just TWO more weeks this would all go away, right?
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
That is a valid point. I look at it like people wearing raincoats in a rainstorm. Better raincoats will keep you more dry, though not entirely. A crappy raincoat with holes won't keep you dry. If we were to study raincoat effectiveness on a large, statistically significant population, is it realistic to imagine that we could reliably capture the split between good raincoat, bad raincoat, and no raincoat? What value would such a study have if we couldn't? I'm also not a scientist, so maybe I have a knowledge gap on how studies like this are performed, but I guess my point is that there are a lot of unknowns (or maybe even unknown-unknowns) that have a real impact on results.
Which do you think would be a better raincoat? A government issued one or one from say, Burberry?
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
I doubt many of them are doing it out of some altruistic 'I might have the virus but not know I have the virus' motivation. Some of them probably believe they're protecting themselves (they are, but they're improving their own odds only a tiny amount). Some of them are virtue signaling, I guarantee it. These days, the random masked person in the crowd of grocery shoppers seems strange to me, but it remains their freedom to do that.

On virtue signaling, that's about as freedom of speech as it gets. People signal all kinds of stuff, bumper stickers and what kind of car they drive, flags and signs at their house, politicians, political slogans, you name it. If their way of saying "we're all in this together" is to wear a flimsy cloth mask everywhere in public, then to me that falls under the old cliché, "I disagree with what you're saying but I'll defend your right to say it."


On a similar note,

There was a college prof in Georgia who quit last week because one of his students refused to mask up. The school policy doesn't have mandatory masking and he was asking his students to voluntarily wear masks because he has a few comorbidities himself. I suppose there's nothing wrong with asking (that's what asking is), and it's his prerogative to quit his job if he doesn't like it when people don't agree to what he's asking. On the surface that seems unfortunate, but his angle was that he could die of covid (his phrase) so the should mask up. Ummmm wait a second- you could die of covid but you're not willing to take greater protective measures yourself?? (In other words wear a fitted, tight-sealing N95 mask.) His parting quote was how he has "risked my[his] life to defend my country while in the Air Force." Nice try with the bro vet angle, but America isn't about twenty-five people going out of their way to protect one person who won't take responsibility to protect themselves. Happy retirement, sir.
Totally concur. All they’re doing is virtue signaling. Interestingly, a large number of them (in my non-professional opinion) could’ve stood to lose a significant amount of weight. This also tells me that the media and our “leaders” are failing to properly teach people how to stratify their risk.

But people like taxi1 are the issue in my mind, because they think people wearing masks are being “team players” and those that weren’t aren’t “team players”. Interested just in labels and outward appearance. Each group is making their own risk decisions. Last time I checked, that’s legal.
 

GroundPounder

Well-Known Member
You know how we could really tell if they were team players? Some outward sign of covid vaccination status! Isn’t that a great idea? We can visually categorize people based off of a medical status. Wouldn’t that be something?

And let me guess, if we all wore masks and locked down for just TWO more weeks this would all go away, right?

Great idea.

For best visibility, let's go with a bright color. Yellow sounds good.

To make sure it can be seen from all directions, let's go with two triagles, superimposed on one another.

Maybe if the public gets really invested, they will spontaneously help put by painting the logo on their homes and businesses of tbose that are noncompliant.

Obviously hyperbolic, but this has unleashed authoritarianism on bureaucrats and elected officials.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The difference is, there's a decent likelihood one of the kids gave Covid to their teacher.
Talk about speculation and hyperbola. That teacher has been out and about for months. Grocery store, gas station, friends house, teachers rallies to stay out of school and collect pay for no work, etc. And you think a kid gave her covid?
 

SlickAg

Registered User
pilot
Great idea.

For best visibility, let's go with a bright color. Yellow sounds good.

To make sure it can be seen from all directions, let's go with two triagles, superimposed on one another.

Maybe if the public gets really invested, they will spontaneously help put by painting the logo on their homes and businesses of tbose that are noncompliant.

Obviously hyperbolic, but this has unleashed authoritarianism on bureaucrats and elected officials.
Not to mention private citizens (like some on this forum) that want to classify people as either for or against the team based on mask (and presumably vaccination) status.

Mods here will dismiss this as a slippery slope argument or some other sort of logical fallacy, but how is everyone not absolutely scared shitless at the amount of power the government is exerting over people with things like vaccine passports? I’m not only talking just federal overreach, but state and local as well. Madness.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
...but how is everyone not absolutely scared shitless at the amount of power the government is exerting over people with things like vaccine passports?
Did I miss something? I am not aware of regulation mandating vaccine passports. Not even a serious proposal from someone or some agency that can make it happen. And while I am not for the vax passport, it is worth remembering that we probably all had a shot card or shot record we had to provide to register for school and to travel to some third world countries.
 
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