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Consequences for Veterans and/or retirees in the 2021 DC Riots

nittany03 said:
The entire point of that phrase in the oath is to defend against insurrection, not to commit it.
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Pags said:
Not up to the individual to determine who the enemy is. While some may feel that rival political parties are their enemy that's not the same as a legally recognized enemy of the state.
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I was playing devil's advocate, because I imagine anyone willing to storm the capitol is already mentally distanced from their oath and would try and find reasons within that oath to justify their actions. I'm not defending anyone who stormed the capitol. They should be punished, civilian, retiree, veteran... whoever.
 
Ghost SWO said:
I was playing devil's advocate, because I imagine anyone willing to storm the capitol is already mentally distanced from their oath and would try and find reasons within that oath to justify their actions. I'm not defending anyone who stormed the capitol. They should be punished, civilian, retiree, veteran... whoever.
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I have no doubt the guy thought he was doing the right thing, likely even using his oath as part of his justification. These extremist groups are pretty savvy at warping the mind enough that it is no longer clear what a person is actually doing from an objective perspective.
 
Ghost SWO said:
I was playing devil's advocate, because I imagine anyone willing to storm the capitol is already mentally distanced from their oath and would try and find reasons within that oath to justify their actions. I'm not defending anyone who stormed the capitol. They should be punished, civilian, retiree, veteran... whoever.
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Id imagine there are some who'd think that they are honoring the oath by storming the capitol. I don't know all the grievances but some think that they are protecting America from satan worshipping child molesters, communism, rigged elections, etc. I also imagine that they're convinced that the democratic process it broken, rigged, or co-opted so it's up to them to restore it.
 
MIDNJAC said:
I have no doubt the guy thought he was doing the right thing, likely even using his oath as part of his justification. These extremist groups are pretty savvy at warping the mind enough that it is no longer clear what a person is actually doing from an objective perspective.
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Yes,

That was a much more eloquent way of portraying what I was trying to say thank you lol.
 
I think most of the ones who were outside in the National Mall ought to be fine, at least the ones who were only making noise (doesn't matter if you agree with their noise or not, that's kinda the point). I have a feeling a few of them may get swept up by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, too close to the people who turned violent. Similarly, I'm sure that some of the people who are charged are going to claim that they were peacefully making noise in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If any of the folks who physically stormed the buildings, are arrested and charged, take it to trial (I'm sure a few will plead but some will roll the dice on a trial), it'll be reeeeally interesting to hear their rationalization. The whole thing has been bizarre but I'm afraid there's more bizarreness to come out.

I bet the Nashville Christmas bomber would be rolling over in his grave (except he can't because he's in a million pieces) that his fifteen minutes of fame got cut off. The stress of everything in 2020 has been one helluva catalyst to make the craziest people even crazier.
 
MIDNJAC said:
He participated in an armed and violent attempt to overthrow the federal government, and is a traitor. I can think of few other crimes that are as serious for any citizen, let alone a military officer who recited the oath.
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This is a bit of an over reach.

Yes the capitol building take over was wrong, criminal and conducted violently with some of the people armed people. But it was not an attempt to overthrow the government nor treason. It was a protest that went really really wrong.

But it was not the endless days and months of armed rioting, lootings. destruction and unprovoked attacks we saw from Anitfa, BLM and the left all of which were praised by the media and Democratic leaders. It was one day and except for the Capitol building, it was peaceful with the vast majority of protestors disbursing when ordered. Even the damage inside the Capitol was very minimal especially when compared to the left's "mostly peaceful protests".

The way the Dems, left and media are portraying this versus the way they portrayed the rest of the riots this year is pathetic and hypocritical.

This satire piece is actually pretty accurate:

Ignorant Republicans Riot And Don't Even Get Any Big-Screen TVs January 7th, 2021
 
HAL Pilot said:
Yes the capitol building take over was wrong, criminal and conducted violently with some of the people armed people. But it was not an attempt to overthrow the government nor treason. It was a protest that went really really wrong.
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I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I 100% disagree on this point. I will concede that they probably did not intend to fully dismantle the government. But they did intend to forcibly interfere with the election process. They were counting on the VP rejecting the EC count, they were counting on POTUS to support them, and they were there to provide the muscle and intimidation to ensure that this unconstitutional act would be carried out. It wouldn't have been violent had they had their way, according to the plan. But then they got "bay of pigs'd".
 
MIDNJAC said:
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I 100% disagree on this point. I will concede that they probably did not intend to fully dismantle the government. But they did intend to forcibly interfere with the election process. They were counting on the VP rejecting the EC count, they were counting on POTUS to support them, and they were there to provide the muscle and intimidation to ensure that this unconstitutional act would be carried out. It wouldn't have been violent had they had their way, according to the plan. But then they got "bay of pigs'd".
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As with most mobs, you can't paint everybody with the same broad brush.

But...for the individuals who were chanting to hang the Vice President of the United States after breaking into the Capitol? That's more than just protest gone wrong.
 
BigRed389 said:
As with most mobs, you can't paint everybody with the same broad brush.

But...for the individuals who were chanting to hang the Vice President of the United States after breaking into the Capitol? That's more than just protest gone wrong.
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That is certainly a fair point. And ultimately this guy will get his day in court with a jury of his peers, which is of course, the way our judicial system still works thankfully. I have a very disconcerting sense that the "trials" that would have ensued, had this not gone off the rails, would have been of a very different type. What were the zip ties he had in his hands for again?
 
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MIDNJAC said:
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I 100% disagree on this point. I will concede that they probably did not intend to fully dismantle the government. But they did intend to forcibly interfere with the election process. They were counting on the VP rejecting the EC count, they were counting on POTUS to support them, and they were there to provide the muscle and intimidation to ensure that this unconstitutional act would be carried out. It wouldn't have been violent had they had their way, according to the plan. But then they got "bay of pigs'd".
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They absolutely deserve to be prosecuted, but your claim that they were part of an armed insurrection is a little ridiculous.
 
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