I was told the brief is on the street. Buddy of mine is supposed to send me a copy of it today.
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Congrats to all the FY12 DH selectees!!
- Thread starter Flying Low
- Start date
Sorry, slow kid here - what brief are we talking about? Is it the community specific ADHSB debrief slides?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Seems like it's the overall ADHSB debrief.
Hell, we got the overall debrief last month while underway... I thought you guys were waiting around on the TMS specific breakdowns. Nothing cosmic in the overall: Get an EP on first sea tour, go to FRS and get an EP, go back to sea.... IAs help but don't fix, same old - same old.
Turns out the dudes with 3 EPs had a 92% chance of screening while the guys with 0 EPs had a "considerably" lower screen rate... Yawn.
Turns out the dudes with 3 EPs had a 92% chance of screening while the guys with 0 EPs had a "considerably" lower screen rate... Yawn.
whatever. I'm just saying that you guys might be getting strung along because the overall debrief slides have been out for several weeks. if you're talking about the community specific slides - can't help you there, I have no SA to those.
Squorch, I will not defend anything the detailers are telling anyone, but the fact remains that historically speaking, the RAG has always had more folks screen for DH than VT/HT's.
I've seen lots of briefs, including listening to CNATRA himself at NHA saying that the Navy needs to increase the numbers of the folks getting DH out of the Training Command. Has the Navy ever backed up these assertions? No.
While I have no actual data to back this up, IMO the VT/HT folks actually have a greater chance of getting DH since they brought the DH Screen Board into existence. It used to be that the Commodores and the Community Manager at NPC would come up with a DH list and get a couple of chops from the Community Leadership.
Now with the board, there is less "good old boy" networking and a more integrity to the selection of DH's. I can't remember any of my DH's in my JO squadron being a VT/HT instructor. During my DH tour we had only 1 VT/HT instructor. That makes about 1 person in about 12 to make DH in my two squadron that was a Flight School instructor. Now they are listed it around 30%? That's a lot better than what I have seen in my limited view.
Back in the mid-90's it was well-known, if you want to be a Skipper some day your DH options were:
1) RAG or TPS (assuming you can get in)
2) Flag Loop
3) Weapons School/Fallon
Needless to say, you can't make Skipper without making DH, therefore, you would want one of those assignments.
Today, the Weapons School/Fallon are probably #1 (still tied with TPS) and the RAG dropped to #2.
I'm sure if you talk to the older folks on this forum, they'll tell you the same thing.
Until you actually see the Navy back up words with deeds (increasing the selection rate for Training Command folks) then you were probably naive in accepting the Detailers word that the VT/HT's will be as competitive as the traditional shore duty assignments.
If you got sold a bill-of-goods, I'm sorry, but the fact that VT/HT's will screen less for DH than the RAG/WWS was proven out long before you or I were ever in the Navy.
I've seen lots of briefs, including listening to CNATRA himself at NHA saying that the Navy needs to increase the numbers of the folks getting DH out of the Training Command. Has the Navy ever backed up these assertions? No.
While I have no actual data to back this up, IMO the VT/HT folks actually have a greater chance of getting DH since they brought the DH Screen Board into existence. It used to be that the Commodores and the Community Manager at NPC would come up with a DH list and get a couple of chops from the Community Leadership.
Now with the board, there is less "good old boy" networking and a more integrity to the selection of DH's. I can't remember any of my DH's in my JO squadron being a VT/HT instructor. During my DH tour we had only 1 VT/HT instructor. That makes about 1 person in about 12 to make DH in my two squadron that was a Flight School instructor. Now they are listed it around 30%? That's a lot better than what I have seen in my limited view.
Back in the mid-90's it was well-known, if you want to be a Skipper some day your DH options were:
1) RAG or TPS (assuming you can get in)
2) Flag Loop
3) Weapons School/Fallon
Needless to say, you can't make Skipper without making DH, therefore, you would want one of those assignments.
Today, the Weapons School/Fallon are probably #1 (still tied with TPS) and the RAG dropped to #2.
I'm sure if you talk to the older folks on this forum, they'll tell you the same thing.
Until you actually see the Navy back up words with deeds (increasing the selection rate for Training Command folks) then you were probably naive in accepting the Detailers word that the VT/HT's will be as competitive as the traditional shore duty assignments.
If you got sold a bill-of-goods, I'm sorry, but the fact that VT/HT's will screen less for DH than the RAG/WWS was proven out long before you or I were ever in the Navy.
And since the Detailers are the "future COs" of the community...I'm guessing that I'd be naive for wanting to be there. Where the hell were you, lump, when I was following the stick???
Than stop lying. Thanks for further insulting our intelligence.
Yeah, same slides as last year...and the year before...and the year before that...
Maybe an 80 changed to a 62 or so...45 changed to 20...yep...that's good enough.
Between you and squorch its often hard to tell who's more bitter. Lumpy is pointing out FACTS. Facts about decisions that no one around here made. Maybe an 80 changed to a 62 - sweet. Folks around here were wondering when the brief was coming out and it's relevant to point out that there is already one out there. Is it the one you're wondering about? Dunno - but now you guys have a little more ammo when asking your leadership WTF.
Every community has got its Chunks and Squorchs. Good dudes who have gotten hosed. You're not the first nor will you be the last.
But taking out your frustrations on an internet forum towards a dude from your community who's been around long enough to know the score... That's cool too.
I think there was a compliment somewhere in there, thank you. I'm not going to waste any more time arguing over the supreme knowledge that everyone, but me, apparently knows. Wish you all were the detailers, however, as I feel that I would have gotten a better expectation of where I should take my career.
Peas. I'm out.
And trust me, the ammo is well received by those who couldn't get it from their detailer or other normal channels.
But that's the crux of the issue - the "normal channels" are full of bullshit, half-truths and well-wishings. How about "you didn't get FRS/WWS, so you probably won't make DH. Start thinking about other stuff to do." (not saying I never heard that before, but never from a CO/XO type or a detailer.) I'm not bitter about the low numbers - I'm bitter about the lack of internal corporate honesty with the TRACOM guys.
Just for emphasis, the facts are what they are. No sense getting mad at that. But the way in which this stuff is put out to people who aren't FRS/WWS? I'd say the good ol boy network is alive and kicking.
To come back to lumpy's points, again, I know that the #1s and #2s are going to FRS/WWS/random aide slots. It's how the system is set up. So it's to be expected that the rates are going to be higher for those commands and their alumni vice TRACOM people. Where the bitterness comes from is that yeah, lots of folks do take what people with stars on their shoulders say at face value, especially when, over the past 3 or so years, they were consistently saying the same thing: "we need more DHs from TRACOM sources." So yeah, part of it is the "why not me? WASN'T I GOOD ENOUGH COACH" mentality, but it's also the embarrassment of having bought into something that just ain't there.
(but still, smiles. I get to fly for a living.)
But that's the crux of the issue - the "normal channels" are full of bullshit, half-truths and well-wishings. How about "you didn't get FRS/WWS, so you probably won't make DH. Start thinking about other stuff to do." (not saying I never heard that before, but never from a CO/XO type or a detailer.) I'm not bitter about the low numbers - I'm bitter about the lack of internal corporate honesty with the TRACOM guys.
Just for emphasis, the facts are what they are. No sense getting mad at that. But the way in which this stuff is put out to people who aren't FRS/WWS? I'd say the good ol boy network is alive and kicking.
To come back to lumpy's points, again, I know that the #1s and #2s are going to FRS/WWS/random aide slots. It's how the system is set up. So it's to be expected that the rates are going to be higher for those commands and their alumni vice TRACOM people. Where the bitterness comes from is that yeah, lots of folks do take what people with stars on their shoulders say at face value, especially when, over the past 3 or so years, they were consistently saying the same thing: "we need more DHs from TRACOM sources." So yeah, part of it is the "why not me? WASN'T I GOOD ENOUGH COACH" mentality, but it's also the embarrassment of having bought into something that just ain't there.
(but still, smiles. I get to fly for a living.)
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I was just behind Chunks in getting orders to HT-Land out of my sea tour. (in fact, Chunks was my sponsor, until my orders changed and I went to Krock)
Detailer at the time, told me while West RAG was #1 and East RAG was #2 (due to 60B vs 60R) the HT/VTs were the 80% solution. Basically, it was sold that the DH rate was a bit lower, but not astronomically lower. Like maybe 90% out of RAG, and 75-80% out of HT/VT, so as long as you did your part and left with good paper, you'd be OK, but would have less leeway on your dissasoch, so you were basically buying a shooter/ANAV tour if you went HT/VT.
I went a totally different route, and been much happier for it for the most part. (minus this whole looking for a job thing)
Detailer at the time, told me while West RAG was #1 and East RAG was #2 (due to 60B vs 60R) the HT/VTs were the 80% solution. Basically, it was sold that the DH rate was a bit lower, but not astronomically lower. Like maybe 90% out of RAG, and 75-80% out of HT/VT, so as long as you did your part and left with good paper, you'd be OK, but would have less leeway on your dissasoch, so you were basically buying a shooter/ANAV tour if you went HT/VT.
I went a totally different route, and been much happier for it for the most part. (minus this whole looking for a job thing)
shitty part is that detailers are people too - and that means that they're often wrong. anything else at this point is kicking a dead horse.