Congrats to all the FY12 DH selectees!!

[Gatordev]

I know guys in the VT/HTs fly their faces off, but lets not pretend that the FRS/WTI guys, or anyone for that matter, aren't working just as hard and have all sorts of free time for a masters, JPME, or personal stuff.

Based on what I've seen in FRS IP's logbooks compared to TRACOM IP's logbooks, coupled with the activity I've seen on a RAG flightline on a Monday or Friday, my perspective is that the TRACOM guys are working/flying much more consistently than RAG guys. That's not to say that the FRS guys aren't doing the job they need to be doing, it's just a job with a different schedule than the TRACOM (6-7 days a week, 10-12 hour days, depending on VT/HT).

All that said, Brett's spot on. The standard hasn't changed, it's the selection rates. And it's not just DH, it's Navy wide. I had an ADAN that was awesome and one of only 3 AD wrench-turners, but she can't advance because of advancement rates (0%). It's just the way of things right now.

 

[Flying Low]

Was last year's board as bad for the HT/VTs?

Selection for VT/HT last year is as follows:
HM 1/1 (100%)
HSM 16/18 (89%)
HSC 12/13 (92%)

Total for all Helos (last year) with a VT/HT tour is 29/32 (91%). So 3 people who opted in last year for DH that did a tour in VT/HT did not make it. This year that number is 22. I got this number by taking the Bubba list and highlighting all those that selected DH which was also at the end of the SG. I elimanted thost that are FTS or failed to select for O-4. I just took who was left that failed to select for DH and looked at thier past/currenty duty stations. I did not count above zone and have no way to know who Opted in/out even though last year there were 10 who opted up for the of helos. That is 11/134 (8%).

Now for those that did screen this year and did a tour in the VT/HT's is 10. So this years total numbers are 10/32 (31%) for Helo's. I used the same formula as above to get this info but I think it is pretty close. I think there were 171 inzone this year (No way to know how many OPT-outs but I was able to remove the FTS and Failed to selects for O-4).

 

[EM1toNFO]

Slide 2: Have a blast working your knuckles down to bone while some snot-nose O-1/2 (unknowingly of course) tries to kill you.

We snot nosed ENS/JG's really DO appreciate the hard work and effort that you all put forth. We know it takes A LOT to train MOST of us!

 

[Flying Low]

I guess the numbers are so bad the plan is not to release them.

 

[MasterBates]

Seems that way.

 

[squorch2]

Conspiracy theory time: YG03/04 is negotiating for orders and despite PERS' best efforts, is still severely undermanned in 1310. They need people to take "due course" orders from the HTs/VTs as well as FRS/WWS, but don't need them to be DHs. Hence the lack of information so that people will think "well, I'm *different* from those other guys. I'll get picked up for O-4/DH if I take the hard jobs."

Just a theory. (smiles simulated)

 

[smittyrunr]

Conspiracy theory time: YG03/04 is negotiating for orders and despite PERS' best efforts, is still severely undermanned in 1310. They need people to take "due course" orders from the HTs/VTs as well as FRS/WWS, but don't need them to be DHs. Hence the lack of information so that people will think "well, I'm *different* from those other guys. I'll get picked up for O-4/DH if I take the hard jobs."

Just a theory. (smiles simulated)

Interesting... explain "due course." I'm into the conspiracy theory bit... not arguing with you, just looking for discussion... There are YG 02 guys who are now YG 03 (massive zone creep) and who will need orders (and, in theory a FITREP) before their O-4 look. This is also (specifically for 1310 yg 02) where the 8-yr comittment comes into play. Last year at this time, there were more people who needed disassociated orders than they had spots for- so IA/GSA for all my friends.
My thoughts: despite the doom and gloom from the rest of the economy, the airlines are hiring (I know, doesn't do that much for rotary wing type, but I think those that went VT T-34 are included). They are going to be severely undermanned for yg 02-03 DH. All of us are going to be able to get out post-Disassoc/IA, and are not tempted by the paltry bonus reduction.

 

[MasterBates]

I think you two are on to something.

Yeah.. YG02 went all over the place, some of us into YG01, which did not work out well for the 4-5 transitions.. 4 of us FOSd probably in no small part from us going up for O-4 a year sooner (immediately post RAG for 3 of us) than we thought.

I do find it funny that I will be 100% out of the Navy before some of the dudes in my YG even go in zone.

 

[squorch2]

Interesting... explain "due course." I'm into the conspiracy theory bit... not arguing with you, just looking for discussion... There are YG 02 guys who are now YG 03 (massive zone creep) and who will need orders (and, in theory a FITREP) before their O-4 look. This is also (specifically for 1310 yg 02) where the 8-yr comittment comes into play. Last year at this time, there were more people who needed disassociated orders than they had spots for- so IA/GSA for all my friends.
My thoughts: despite the doom and gloom from the rest of the economy, the airlines are hiring (I know, doesn't do that much for rotary wing type, but I think those that went VT T-34 are included). They are going to be severely undermanned for yg 02-03 DH. All of us are going to be able to get out post-Disassoc/IA, and are not tempted by the paltry bonus reduction.

Due course orders are those orders that keep you on track for CO. For helos it's usually a boat, I think P-3s is shooter tours, dunno about anything else. Something that is hard, usually. Not good deal orders, sure as hell not flying orders.

The 8 year commitment is coming back to bite 1310s in the ass - especially HT/VTs - because you can't just extend in Milton/Corpus and get out, you HAVE to take the shitty boat tour, shitty IA, or shitty job du jour - or start positioning yourself for something other than aviation DH. And right now the other jobs are starting to look really good in comparson, because you're apparently not competitive at all for DH no matter what job you take.

The conspiracy comes in where people stop responding to the carrot of "look, you'll make DH from the HT/VTs" and start looking for other options immediately upon receiving TRACOM orders, thus swinging the pendulum even further away from decent manning. (Unless FRS/WWS can supply 100% of DH billets, in which case you're basically deep selecting COs based on first det/first tour performance.) It seems as if PERS knows this and is hoping no one puts the pieces together. The utter lack of communication from the board, to include products released as part of previous boards, is disconcerting to those coming up in the next few years because SOMETHING has changed - it's just that no one will say what or quantify how much. And I'm betting most people will go with the devil they know - getting out.

 

[MasterBates]

As much of a pain as getting a civilian job has been.. Knowing I cannot be IA'd is great. Laid off yes, but really, how is that different than if the Navy comes down with an IRAD beyond people choosing to walk and 2x FOSs?

 

[MasterBates]

Casey as an HSL/VAW Pilot:
CO-LT, you are going to Durkafuckastan for an 18 month IA, don't worry about it, the time is coming off your shore tour.
Me- FUCK.

Casey as an Engineer:
VP of Enginerds- Mr. Bates, we are sending you to Somalia for a year, for no extra base pay, and a whopping $250/mo per diem!
Me- FUCK YOU! (as I moon VP, and go back to flying crop dusters)

 

[Brett327]

Has anyone querried their respective detailers about any of this?

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

I know some of my guys did.. Detailer did not seem to know when it's coming out either.

 

[Flying Low]

Has anyone querried their respective detailers about any of this?

Brett

I did but got the standard line of "Don't know when they will be out".

 

[squorch2]

Same here. Most of us have the same detailer.