Congrats to all the FY12 DH selectees!!

[ChunksJR]

VT/HT tours can be rewarding, but one can't put their head in the sand, then be shocked when they don't screen.

Oh, I was shocked.

There was no head in the sand...I put my performance on the line and based on the double tap (triple if you include the 1/1), production numbers (1700 hrs in 2.5 years), JPME I, Masters, GSA, and disassoc tour that I did. When the olmstead scholar gets picked up ahead of me, I raise a serious BS flag on the detailer briefing on staying "competitive". I don't think I was properly prepared for the "timing" issue, and I don't expect special treatment, but there certainly has to be a better focus on customer service from TN, IMHO.

But, I've never done a tour there, so maybe I just don't fully understand the need to represent everyone, and maybe everyone is performing at my level that doesn't screen. And maybe I'm a type A aviator who thinks my $hit don't stink, but the Navy screwed up on not selecting me, and has said for 10 years of my career now : "A strong breakout in the HTs is just as competative as an FRS tour." And that's a crock...again, IMHO.

 

[Pags]

Oh, I was shocked.

There was no head in the sand...I put my performance on the line and based on the double tap (triple if you include the 1/1), production numbers (1700 hrs in 2.5 years), JPME I, Masters, GSA, and disassoc tour that I did. When the olmstead scholar gets picked up ahead of me, I raise a serious BS flag on the detailer briefing on staying "competitive". I don't think I was properly prepared for the "timing" issue, and I don't expect special treatment, but there certainly has to be a better focus on customer service from TN, IMHO.

But, I've never done a tour there, so maybe I just don't fully understand the need to represent everyone, and maybe everyone is performing at my level that doesn't screen. And maybe I'm a type A aviator who thinks my $hit don't stink, but the Navy screwed up on not selecting me, and has said for 10 years of my career now : "A strong breakout in the HTs is just as competative as an FRS tour." And that's a crock...again, IMHO.

I understand you being pissed off at the results, but the unfortunate truth is that most of the FRS/WTI guys you were competing against were highly competitive (ie, #1/2) at all places they've been. All the other stuff you worked your tail off for is becoming less of a tie breaker and more of a standard. I know plenty of guys who have both JPME and a Masters leaving their shore tour.

I've never sat on any board and my understanding of the manning, the tank, and screen process is about par, but this year HSC selected ~40DHs. I'd wager that the number selected each year is pretty standard due to manning requirements. If the selection rate is low that probably says more about the number of people trying to stay Navy than in the past and the crummy state of the economy. Everything I had heard from senior leadership indicated that PERS wanted to keep the screen rate at 80% and that it was more than likely going to go up due to the growth of the HSC community.

If you assume that each HS/HSC/old HC squadron made one each of a #1 and #2 for the SG that's about 30 people. If you figure that the majority of these guys went on to community billets like the FRS/WTI and maintained their superior performance and then went on to take a boat tour, then that leaves 10 slots for other guys. That's a pretty competitive board where it's unfortunately going to make it very hard for non-FRS/WTI guys to make it.

This is all said as a guy with a first tour MP currently in a non-community job so I'm not saying my chances are any better.

 

[PropStop]

Well, i guess my surprise is this: I was an EP out of my JO tour, but not a high one, I was a WTI as well, but got stuck with a hardfill which I left with an MP (b/c i left early, got the kiss goodbye 1/1 though), and now I'm in a joint staff tour, so I went shore-shore...but somehow I picked it up. Given what i've been reading on here, and in the vacuum of direct information, i just don't get how this all played out. I was told point blank in taking the job i'm in now that I would never make DH and probably not get O4. I'm not complaining, mind you, but I'm just confused.

no doubt, I am pretty awesome though

 

[ChunksJR]

.... All the other stuff you worked your tail off for is becoming less of a tie breaker and more of a standard....

BS...I know it's a stretch, but the Olmsted scholar <> 1700 hrs and JPME/Masters/Disassoc sea tour as TN has been selling. I'm not a moron, and understand that Fitreps are the cake with the rest of that crap being icing, but I'm saying that the Navy missed out on some pretty strong players from orange and white land. And I'm ok with us not being as competative...I understand...but don't sell us on the fact that we're "just as competative."

I know plenty of guys who have both JPME and a Masters leaving their shore tour.

I only know of a few. Most of us were flying 60-90 hrs a month.

I'd wager that the number selected each year is pretty standard due to manning requirements.

54 last year, 43 this year. That's a 20% redux.

If the selection rate is low that probably says more about the number of people trying to stay Navy than in the past and the crummy state of the economy. Everything I had heard from senior leadership indicated that PERS wanted to keep the screen rate at 80% and that it was more than likely going to go up due to the growth of the HSC community.

So...if there are more people staying and they reduce the community selection by 20%, how does that equate to 80%? Is that IZ and AZ...because I don't know many "senior leadership" other than the CAPT(sel) airboss I had, CDR mini and every bubba that went to NHA this year, but I keep hearing how my chance of AZ look is going to go up...I just don't see the numbers panning out if they are still looking for that magical 80%...

If you figure that the majority of these guys went on to community billets like the FRS/WTI and maintained their superior performance and then went on to take a boat tour...

Yeah...I know more that DIDN'T do the boat than that did...but I'll play the game for you, Pags...

then that leaves 10 slots for other guys. That's a pretty competitive board where it's unfortunately going to make it very hard for non-FRS/WTI guys to make it.

Then say it. This is the crux of the matter...Sack up and say that you better go FRS/WTI or think about another career.

 

[Pags]

54 last year, 43 this year. That's a 20% redux.

Like I said, I don't know the manning specifics. The number of squadrons is still the same, so you'd think the number of DH billets would be relatively steady. This year they didn't pick as many OP-T which might have driven the numbers down as well.

So...if there are more people staying and they reduce the community selection by 20%, how does that equate to 80%? Is that IZ and AZ...because I don't know many "senior leadership" other than the CAPT(sel) airboss I had, CDR mini and every bubba that went to NHA this year, but I keep hearing how my chance of AZ look is going to go up...I just don't see the numbers panning out if they are still looking for that magical 80%...

It obviously doesn't equate to 80, but everything I had heard was that PERS wanted to keep the screen rate at 80%. Obviously they didn't, but why didn't they? I have a feeling that PERS was probably surprised by the screen rate as well. It's not just because they hate you and me.

Then say it. This is the crux of the matter...Sack up and say that you better go FRS/WTI or think about another career.

I don't think they could say it because they didn't know that that was going to be the case. Was last year's board as bad for the HT/VTs?

 

[smittyrunr]

Well, they've put the FY-12 O-4 site back up, so if you want to go through the list of eligibles and figure out selection %, you can do that. The convening order (with URL promotion opportunity at 80%) is posted. There is a link to board stats, but it doesn't include URL.

 

[MasterBates]

Just odd how secretive they have been with it. Especially after the results sat in limbo forever. Meh. I've got my orders.

Sent via my HTC EVO 4G

 

[Jim123]

Well, they've put the FY-12 O-4 site back up

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this was a case of some IT people up and deciding on their own that some critical "server maintenance" was required and the bad timing was just a coincidence.

 

[hscs]

.... truth is that most of the FRS/WTI guys you were competing against were highly competitive (ie, #1/2) at all places they've been.

And every CO that I have had plus the Bupers roadshow has mentioned this fact.........and the fact that the FRS / WWS guys are pulling down #1/2s at every place in large breakouts means the most. Please remember that Masters, CDO/OOD, JPME (for JOs), Overseas are the 'tie breakers'. Hmm, I believe every precept says something about sustained performance......

 

[MasterBates]

Doesn't hurt that in a some communities, a squadron WTI is going to get the #1 of XX LTs due to community "Stan" being that.

A "Guaranteed" #1 of 15-30 LT less than 4 months after you check in looks good at a board I'd imagine.

Even if they do jack and shit as a WTI. (seen this twice, in two different communities.. And the performing LTs who should have gotten that last EP (not me) were a tad bit pissed.

 

[Gatordev]

Doesn't hurt that in a some communities, a squadron WTI is going to get the #1 of XX LTs due to community "Stan" being that.

A "Guaranteed" #1 of 15-30 LT less than 4 months after you check in looks good at a board I'd imagine.

Even if they do jack and shit as a WTI. (seen this twice, in two different communities.. And the performing LTs who should have gotten that last EP (not me) were a tad bit pissed.

I can't speak to Airwing dudes, but from what I saw in HSL, I'm pretty sure the WTI LT's were either on the shore UIC and/or were under the "SELECTED" group, which would be a separate ranking group from the sea LTs.

 

[ChunksJR]

so I went shore-shore...but somehow I picked it up. ... I was told point blank in taking the job i'm in now that I would never make DH and probably not get O4. I'm not complaining, mind you, but I'm just confused.

Great quote above for anyone considering following the stick to get the "possible" carrot. And going back to what I said before: don't look to the gouge PPT to see how to follow said stick.

Here's what the new and improved HONEST slides should say:
Slide 1: Go FRS and WTI. Gaff off with your peers, THINK about doing a masters/JPME, get wife pregnant, pick up a hobby. You'll have 100% selection. Hell, just get WTI and skip the production job completely via some olmstead scholarship and get drunk with foreign prostitutes and you'll be around 80% selection. 75% if you have an ARI while overseas and get sent home early because of it. Oh wait, that ARI was with an FRS guy??? Go back to 100% selection, my bad.

Slide 2: Have a blast working your knuckles down to bone while some snot-nose O-1/2 (unknowingly of course) tries to kill you. Get 2x EPs, JPME, Masters, 1XXX hrs and you may have...well, about 15-25% chance of being picked up, IZ.

Slide 3: Choose wisely and don't fck it up.

Hmm, I believe every precept says something about sustained performance......

Go ahead and explain what "sustained" is. EPs? Trait avgs above summary? Production job? Awards? Seriously, regurgitating what the precept says really does nothing for the conversation.

 

[Brett327]

Again, it seems like we're coming back to the same old conventional wisdom - RAG and Training Officer/WTI are still your best shot at career success if you define that as screening for DH and command. I understand the disappointment and bitterness some of you have, but the only thing here that has changed in recent years are your chances, not the "preferred" path. Every community has good, qualified folks that don't screen - happens every year. While it sucks that things didn't work out as planned, lashing out and impugning those who did screen doesn't help anyone. Take stock of your situation and move forward.

Brett

 

[ChunksJR]

Again, it seems like we're coming back to the same old conventional wisdom - RAG and Training Officer/WTI are still your best shot at career success if you define that as screening for DH and command. I understand the disappointment and bitterness some of you have, but the only thing here that has changed in recent years are your chances, not the "preferred" path. Every community has good, qualified folks that don't screen - happens every year. While it sucks that things didn't work out as planned, lashing out and impugning those who did screen doesn't help anyone. Take stock of your situation and move forward.

Brett

While I agree, I'm not lashing towards anyone. Just saying that V/HT bubbas should not take the hype that they have an equal chance. I didn't mean seem harsh or insensitive to other's POVs, just pointing out that feeding the same lines from TN doesn't help advance the confusion/arguement/statement in any way, shape, or form...and unless you've done a TN tour where you spouted the same lines as we see here, then we should all stop feeding the frenzy. I'll be the first...

Going back to the OP --- Concur. CONGRATS!

~Chunks Out~

 

[Pags]

Here's what the new and improved HONEST slides should say:
Slide 1: Go FRS and WTI. Gaff off with your peers, THINK about doing a masters/JPME, get wife pregnant, pick up a hobby. You'll have 100% selection.

I know guys in the VT/HTs fly their faces off, but lets not pretend that the FRS/WTI guys, or anyone for that matter, aren't working just as hard and have all sorts of free time for a masters, JPME, or personal stuff.

Chunks, I've know you for a long time and you've ALWAYS been a good dude. I agree that it's a shame the Navy didn't pick you this year and that its the fleet's loss. Hopefully the Navy sees the error of their ways next year. Next time I'm in town, beers are on me.