Was it Taft? I feel like it was Taft. Sounds pretty Taft-like. Or Garfield maybe.
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CJCS circumvented POTUS?
- Thread starter Treetop Flyer
- Start date
C’mon man, everyone knows it was Polk. ?
Rumors note that James Buchanan had "Miss Nancy" come by the Oval Office a few times - look it up.
The more I look at this, Milley, not Buchanan or Polk, the more I wonder about the timeline. Other than the optics I don’t think there is much to worry about with the “democracy is sloppy” call but I am caught up wondering about the Oct 30 call. If I am following this right, that is when the CJCS reportedly alerted Li of China that before any U.S. strike: “If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise.” According to the book this came well before Jan 6 and, indeed, before the election. I can’t imagine any circumstance where - assuming absence of clear authorization from civilian policymakers the book implies - he could justify offering a foreign adversary such a pledge.
The hearings are going to be fascinating and messy. If I were a betting man I’d predict a mild finger-wagging from Congress followed by a “retirement to spend more time with my family.”
The hearings are going to be fascinating and messy. If I were a betting man I’d predict a mild finger-wagging from Congress followed by a “retirement to spend more time with my family.”
He was just telling them that (1) we know they are worried and getting triggery and are pondering their own preemptive attack (a pretty big reveal), and that (2) their worries are unfounded, and here’s my pledge that they are unfounded. Relax.
How many wars have been started over the years based on a misunderstanding of what s going on in the other team’s head?
the claim in the book is that SecDef Miller was pre-briefed and approved the calls. the statement by Miller yesterday is quite the opposite
Miller said that the United States Armed Forces, from its inception, has "operated under the inviolable principle of civilian control of the military."
"If the reporting in Woodward’s book is accurate, it represents a disgraceful and unprecedented act of insubordination by the Nation’s top military officer," Miller said, adding that if the story of Milley’s "histrionic outbursts and unsanctioned, anti-Constitutional involvement in foreign policy prove true, he must resign immediately or be fired by the Secretary of Defense to guarantee the sanctity of the officer corps."
"Pursuit of partisan politics and individual self-interests are a violation of an officer’s sacred duty and have no place in the United States military," Miller said, adding that "a lesser ranking officer accused of such behavior would immediately be relieved of duty pending a thorough and independent investigation."
"As secretary of defense, I did not and would not ever authorize such conduct," Miller said.
Miller didn't get there till Esper got fired on Nov 9, so Esper may have been aware of the Oct calls.
Miller said that the United States Armed Forces, from its inception, has "operated under the inviolable principle of civilian control of the military."
"If the reporting in Woodward’s book is accurate, it represents a disgraceful and unprecedented act of insubordination by the Nation’s top military officer," Miller said, adding that if the story of Milley’s "histrionic outbursts and unsanctioned, anti-Constitutional involvement in foreign policy prove true, he must resign immediately or be fired by the Secretary of Defense to guarantee the sanctity of the officer corps."
"Pursuit of partisan politics and individual self-interests are a violation of an officer’s sacred duty and have no place in the United States military," Miller said, adding that "a lesser ranking officer accused of such behavior would immediately be relieved of duty pending a thorough and independent investigation."
"As secretary of defense, I did not and would not ever authorize such conduct," Miller said.
Miller didn't get there till Esper got fired on Nov 9, so Esper may have been aware of the Oct calls.
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I'm not in disagreement, I just want to know if Esper approved the message. Basically, as silly and basic as this sounds - and it does, its not Milley's job to prevent a war with any kind of pledge. If Esper approved then Milley is certainly in the clear.
1. To be fair, I wasn't aware until after writing that post of the accusations of the October 30th call in which he allegedly told China they will know before any strike. With that said, that's something worth investigating if there is a basis of truth to it.
2. With that said: my counter to post Jan-6th comms, or ones right around that time period where fervor was at its peak, would be "do you think President Trump had the authority to launch a preemptive strike on China?" I would argue he didn't and the current President does not either. Knowing that, and knowing they feared a strike, worried they may preemptively strike the USA first, I think Milley was well within his lane to say "hey, we have no plans to do this, no it's not going to happen, don't start shit with us now because we aren't with you." In that sense, I would argue he was well within the lanes of his job and what the job of the National Security Apparatus does in its execution of foreign policy. It's not just dropping bombs and shooting bullets.
I don’t think anyone is arguing communication is bad. If he took it upon himself to tell China we are unstable, may attack unprovoked, and that he’d warn them ahead of time in any case, that’s incredibly bad. He should be in prison if that’s the case. Shit like that could have caused a war.
Who doesn't mind having a polk in the office from time to time?
Uhhh, No. His message was we are stable and we aren't planning to attack unprovoked.
“General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay,” Milley told him. “We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.”
Yeah perfectly stable:
“In the calls, Milley sought to assure Li the United States was stable and not going to attack and, if there were to be an attack, he would alert his counterpart ahead of time, the report said.”
We won’t attack but maybe we will and if we do I’ll tell you.
There will be no unprovoked surprise attack that you would need to pre-empt by attacking us first. So ease your guns, China.
And if there is I’ll warn you
No, because then it would not be an unprovoked surprise attack. So no need to pre-emptively strike us. Stand down your forces.
What all was going on that made the Chinese consider the need for a pre-emptive strike, anyway? Anything in domestic US politics that concerned them?
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