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CJCS circumvented POTUS?

DanMa1156

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Not trying to take sides here, but doesn't this thing kind of happen with some regularity? Haven't military leaders / SECDEF called their Russian (and nowadays Chinese) counterparts in the past before some sort of missile launch to say "hey. this isn't the balloon going up?" I read in a book about 9/11 the Russians called to say "hey, this wasn't us, and we promise we won't mess with you for a little bit."

With the current AUMF that (somehow) still remains in force, my understanding is the President wouldn't have the authority to strike China. Taking time to remind them of that in order to ease tensions doesn't seem all that crazy to me. He called his peer, not someone above or below him. He didn't leak any information.

And for all we know, Trump had no plans to strike China. So far from what's been released from the book was not Milley or other advisers convincing President Trump not to, just reminding the Chinese "hey, we don't have plans to do this." Milley told him democracy sometimes looks messy but there were no plans that Trump would strike in order to declare some emergency to stay in power (which, even if he did, there are no provisions in our Constitution that would allow it).
 
johnboyA6E

johnboyA6E

Well-Known Member
None
DanMa1156 said:
Not trying to take sides here, but doesn't this thing kind of happen with some regularity? Haven't military leaders / SECDEF called their Russian (and nowadays Chinese) counterparts in the past before some sort of missile launch to say "hey. this isn't the balloon going up?" I read in a book about 9/11 the Russians called to say "hey, this wasn't us, and we promise we won't mess with you for a little bit."
Click to expand...

i think the difference here is that Milley was doing this on his own, and was not speaking for the president. he was speaking for himself, and directly undermining the president.
he also inserted himself into the chain of command where he doesn't belong, and demanded that the service chiefs took orders from him. that's not how it works, they report to their respective service secretaries. that is one of the first things we all learned

It was mentioned that previous SecDefs said something similar - however SecDef is in the chain of command, CJCOS is not.

not to mention, what he told the Chinese was "if the president orders something, don't worry, we won't obey, and even if we did, we'll let you know ahead of time" that's not even close to the normal course of business

he should be gone today
 
johnboyA6E

johnboyA6E

Well-Known Member
None
totally agree - i should have added "if this is actually true"

so, maybe that can't be done today... my bad

however, we're not talking about a criminal investigation. seems like POTUS could/should call Milley and simply say "Is this true? Did you really do this? is there anything else you'd like to add?"

based on that call, it could be perfectly appropriate to relieve him today
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I can't help but think that there is a little bit of reputation burnishing going on here. Milley is under the heat lamp for Afghanistan and some in the press are looking to make the story about Trump...not Biden.

Still, I wonder what would happen if some drone driver in Vegas said, "I decided not to launch that missile because I think the guys are JCS are nuts."?
 
taxi1

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
johnboyA6E said:
totally agree - i should have added "if this is actually true"

so, maybe that can't be done today... my bad

however, we're not talking about a criminal investigation. seems like POTUS could/should call Milley and simply say "Is this true? Did you really do this? is there anything else you'd like to add?"

based on that call, it could be perfectly appropriate to relieve him today
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Can't argue with that too much.

This is definitely a serious thing, and Milley can both be a hero and need to head for the pasture pronto. Good time for new blood.

I'd like to hear from a bunch of folks under oath, in front of congress, on live TV. The CIA director and SoS were wrapped up in it too. Let them speak.
 
sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
scoolbubba said:
It's unsurprising that half the country is treating Gen. Milley like a hero and the other half hopes he ends up with a short drop and sudden stop.

Our republic is fucked.
Click to expand...

Agreed. At this point, I doubt anyone could get all Americans to agree that the sky is blue. Half would accuse you of being a racist climate denier, and the other half would yammer about chemtrails and area 51.

We're eating each other. All our enemies have to do is nothing.
 
jmcquate

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I think we all need to be reminded (and the youngens taught) about the death bed confession given to Woodward by DCI Bill Casey tale. Lets not underestimate the ego of Bob Woodward to remain relevant inside the beltway, and not just a one hit wonder from 50 years ago by pumping out historical fiction every once in a while. It's a Woodward trait to include a bombshell. un-cited claim. to get massive media attention for a week to sell a whole bunch of books that no one will read.
 
DanMa1156

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
johnboyA6E said:
i think the difference here is that Milley was doing this on his own, and was not speaking for the president. he was speaking for himself, and directly undermining the president.
he also inserted himself into the chain of command where he doesn't belong, and demanded that the service chiefs took orders from him. that's not how it works, they report to their respective service secretaries. that is one of the first things we all learned

It was mentioned that previous SecDefs said something similar - however SecDef is in the chain of command, CJCOS is not.

not to mention, what he told the Chinese was "if the president orders something, don't worry, we won't obey, and even if we did, we'll let you know ahead of time" that's not even close to the normal course of business

he should be gone today
Click to expand...

To the bold portions, 1) we don't know that to be true that he was not speaking for the President; 2) for all he knew, there were no plans to strike China, so trying to ease tensions with them with them when they felt an attack may be imminent isn't a bad idea; 3) he never said to the Chinese that he wouldn't obey the President, just hey, we're not going to strike, sometimes democracies have some periods of internal strife, but that doesn't mean it has to spill externally.

To the italacized portion - from what I understand, the CJCS does get a say in nuclear launch procedures. It isn't just as fast as POTUS pointing at a dot on a map and the guy with the football comes running. I saw an interview with STRATCOM a year or two ago where he discussed what he could, but said there were many layers of military leadership that have a say in nuclear strikes, particularly ones that are not in response to one.
 
Treetop Flyer

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
DanMa1156 said:
To the bold portions, 1) we don't know that to be true that he was not speaking for the President; 2) for all he knew, there were no plans to strike China, so trying to ease tensions with them with them when they felt an attack may be imminent isn't a bad idea; 3) he never said to the Chinese that he wouldn't obey the President, just hey, we're not going to strike, sometimes democracies have some periods of internal strife, but that doesn't mean it has to spill externally.

To the italacized portion - from what I understand, the CJCS does get a say in nuclear launch procedures. It isn't just as fast as POTUS pointing at a dot on a map and the guy with the football comes running. I saw an interview with STRATCOM a year or two ago where he discussed what he could, but said there were many layers of military leadership that have a say in nuclear strikes, particularly ones that are not in response to one.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly think there’s even a possibility that he was speaking for the president if the story in the OP is accurate?
 
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