Charging people money to become a fighter pilot

[Steve Wilkins]

Yes, but "help" doesn't cost $147. Help is free advice/direction to save someone some pain. "I see you're injured and have a sucking chest wound. I can help. That'll be $147 for the next 30 mins of power-packed help."

Interesting analogy considering that many doctors just want to "help" people yet they routinely accept payment for their services (whether that's providing them information or providing medical care). Same goes with lawyers, teachers, consultants, journalists, and everyone else in the information and services industry.

My question to all of you who are criticizing....have any of you bothered to contact Ed to review his program? You sound like all the Democrats who are criticizing this 9/11 film without having even seen the film. Why don't you take the time to see what the information is that he's selling before you tell everyone it isn't worth the money.

This isn't an "us vs. them" thing, but we dish out advice/help/direction to prospective military officers in all branches (albeit primarily N/MC) every day vice prospective fighter pilots, but none of us has ever offered a credit card or PayPal option in return. That's just how I see it.

Really? You know all those people with "Contributor" under their name? They contributed money (not blood, sweat, and time) to the Webmaster. Is the Webmaster evil for doing this? I don't think so.

 

[Goober]

1) Tell ya what. Walk into Barnes and Noble. Grab a book, 5 CDs, and 4 pamphlets at random...walk up to the counter and boldly say, "Ring me up!"

How much is that going to cost ya?

There's a big difference. Arco et al = huge publishing corporations w/ a vested monetary gain interest. An offer to "help" or "doing something" is not the same thing. I can't explain it any simpler than that.

2) I have no problem with the "enlisted route" nor with "the trenches"...I do have a problem with well-meaning, well-qualified candidated not knowing their options.

There's no shortage of info avail, and certainly more is at an individual candidate's disposal than there was in the late '80s. My point was that if I (we) were motivated enough to find what we were looking for, then surely it's no great mystery of how to get started. If you don't get the questions you've got answered, you keep asking. It's no different than being a consumer: either you do your homework on the product you're looking for, or you get what you get. The "enlisted route" issue was just a vague reference to Caddyshack - "The world needs ditchdiggers too." Sometimes it just takes longer to get where you want to go is all was my point, but there's no reasonable expectation for anyone to get anything just because they may be "qualified."

3) There once was a day when people who had issues with other people would sqauare them away by talking man-to-man. The internet changed that and has now given us all a chance to rant and rave behind relative anonymity (you'll notice my full name here at the bottom). So, lest we pound away at the keyboards all week, I'll tell ya what...

E-mail or PM me with your name and # or just ask for mine. If you feel you have a legitimate gripe, we can talk man-to-man...that goes for anyone here. I have nothing to hide and I obviously feel that my cause is right...

I've no gripe w/ you other than what you've seen here. You're new to our board, so you've evidently not seen much of it. This forum is, like it or not, a ready room. We spout off, talk smack about each other, and then head off together to the wardroom for midrats. There's no waiting on the school playground at 3:00 to go mano-a-mano because someone took your lunch money. If your sense of manhood was insulted, mea culpa; but I'm not not going to lose sleep over it. Best of luck in your enterprise. Whatever.

It's easy to be a critic...and much harder to actually DO something.

I'll remember that since I just finished a regionally and Congressionally-accredited master's degree on what should have been my "take-it-easy" shore tour and am working on my JPME now. Guess I've spent too much time doing something to keep the job I've already got.

I'm done. I'm not going to 1-circle this to death. Good luck on the circuit.

 

[Goober]

Really? You know all those people with "Contributor" under their name? They contributed money (not blood, sweat, and time) to the Webmaster. Is the Webmaster evil for doing this? I don't think so.

Not applicable in the least. The contributors here do so in appreciation of what Web-san does to keep this joint afloat. None of us lackeys has ever said "Hey new guy, I'll help you with your application process for the low, low price of..."

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Not applicable in the least. The contributors here do so in appreciation of what Web-san does to keep this joint afloat. None of us lackeys has ever said "Hey new guy, I'll help you with your application process for the low, low price of..."

I don't think you're seeing the big picture. But that's ok.

 

[Harrier Dude]

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E-mail or PM me with your name and # or just ask for mine. If you feel you have a legitimate gripe, we can talk man-to-man...that goes for anyone here. I have nothing to hide and I obviously feel that my cause is right...

I don't have "a gripe". I was merely giving you a hard time about your "Maverick"-type image. I'm sure you can take a joke or you wouldn't have lasted long in the Hornet community.

Personally, I think that a prospective candidate can get all the advice he needs for free on the internet at forums like these. I help people on AW all the time and the only "payment" I get is help from others on different subjects. For instance, if I answer some questions about OCS or flight school for some college kid, great. I've certainly recieved a ton of advice about the airlines, commercial aviation, and career paths from some of the "old guys" here, so I feel like I owe it to the rest of AW to help when I can.

Like I said before, I checked out your story and it's legit. If you want to make money off of it (or try to recoup your expenses), go ahead. I think it makes you look cheesey, but that's just one guys opinion. Good luck to you in your new career.

I'll send you a PM with my name.

 

[Gatordev]

Looking (or not looking) cheesy notwithstanding... Why can't these two sites co-exist? Is this really that big a deal? As you've said, Harrier Dude, if "Mr." Rush (I appologize, I haven't followed the drama close enough to know your rank) wasn't for real, a la that teacher in the other thread, then it's a bigger issue, but since it's legit, why do we (on Airwarriors) have to be the only game in town?

 

[BackOrdered]

I've learned my lesson a long time ago about things like this. Anything offering to make something easier that involves payments is usually a rip. This site was all the help I needed to get my pro'rec and I didn't pay a cent.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Looking (or not looking) cheesy notwithstanding... Why can't these two sites co-exist? Is this really that big a deal? As you've said, Harrier Dude, if "Mr." Rush (I appologize, I haven't followed the drama close enough to know your rank) wasn't for real, a la that teacher in the other thread, then it's a bigger issue, but since it's legit, why do we (on Airwarriors) have to be the only game in town?

These two sites can and do co-exist. It's a free country and the people on the net (market) will determine where they get the best advice for the money. You can pay Major Rush for his advice, or you can come on AW and get "our" advice for free. You can decide which is better.

A good thing about his site is that (as I've already said) he IS who he says he is and has done what he says he's done. Whether or not his advice will get you what you want may be subject for debate, but at least a prospective candidate will know for sure he's talking to a real fighter pilot when he shells out his money.

I would wager that anybody who comes on AW and posts phoney gouge or tries to claim he's somebody he's not will get a quick and brutal flaming by some of the guys on this site and be exposed as a fraud, but there's no guarentee.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[Gatordev]

@Harrier Dude:

Concur. My post wasn't meant to be directed at you.

 

[Goober]

I don't think you're seeing the big picture. But that's ok.

Actually, I see the big picture just fine - your logic just doesn't apply here is all. Voluntary contributions in appreciation of maintaining a website for anyone to freely talk about anything and all things aviation related is not the same as "I'll give you something, but you gotta pay up front first." That's when it turns from help to profit.

He can knock himself out - more power to him. As stated already, all this info is available for free. This is just my opinion; and it didn't cost anyone a dime.

 

[squeeze]

This thread has taken a turn for the awesome.

 

[mmx1]

As stated in the other thread, as a private tutor I have no problem with charging for gouge.

What does bug me is how Mr. Rush is selling a rosy bill of goods about becoming a fighter pilot that glosses over the responsibilities one entails as an officer, or the very likely possibility that they won't be flying jets and have a 6-year commitment flying something....not so pointy. And when there are Primary classes with no jet slots, I think it's unfair and irresponsible to pitch Naval Aviation as a surefire way to the carrier.

Ok, so OSO's also sell up being a pilot, but as far as I've witnessed, not to this extent I'm seeing on your site. And, to me at least, there's a difference between a recruiter pitching it for the good of the service and someone pitching for personal monetary gain.

I don't think anyone has a problem with your writing and disseminating the gouge for profit nor its accuracy. Jay Stout wrote a decent book about the Naval Aviation pipeline, which I bought as a reference. Certainly there's an opening for a how-to book like Cliffs or the like (the ASTB books are all crap). And though there's gouge available here, it's not a terrifically easy reference for looking for things. If I weren't an Airwarriors whore that had half this committed to memory, I'd probably consider buying your gouge if only to have a reference; but to be honest the whole marketing aspect would scare me off.

The way your services are being marketed bugs me and I'll bet bugs many people as well, and I would say it cheapens your credentials. It also is attracting the wrong sorts of folks - if your forum is any gauge, the sort that have tunnel vision on being a hot stick; whereas skeptical, serious candidates like myself and others that have posted are leery of such a slick set of promises. That and your forum is a breeding ground for bad gouge. Sure, we bite newcomers pretty often; but the result is that bad gouge is stamped out and the forums have a (semi-)serious attitude. Poking around yours, it seems like kids are running the show, and while you're not perpetuating bad gouge, you are accomodating high school kids talking about things they really have no clue about.

Take this unsolicited advice from a civilian however you will; as an American, I'm just a little scared at the prospect of some of your forum members getting a commission in my military.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

What does bug me is how Mr. Rush is selling a rosy bill of goods about becoming a fighter pilot that glosses over the responsibilities one entails as an officer, or the very likely possibility that they won't be flying jets and have a 6-year commitment flying something....not so pointy. And when there are Primary classes with no jet slots, I think it's unfair and irresponsible to pitch Naval Aviation as a surefire way to the carrier.

Again, I'll reiterate. If you haven't reviewed the material he is selling, then you have no business talking negative about it... ant it's quite apparent that you haven't reviewed it.

I don't think anyone has a problem with you writing and disseminating the gouge nor its accuracy.

No, just that it's being sold.

your forum is a breeding ground for bad gouge

So is this forum. I can't even begin to count how many times I've had to correct people here for putting up bad gouge.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I deleted Raptor's posts of Ed Rush's emails that he sends out. Reposting them here is a huge no no; a clear violation of copyright laws.

 

[mmx1]

Again, I'll reiterate. If you haven't reviewed the material he is selling, then you have no business talking negative about it... ant it's quite apparent that you haven't reviewed it.

As I stated, I'm not criticizing his product (even offered that it could be something I'd buy), just his marketing.

So is this forum. I can't even begin to count how many times I've had to correct people here for putting up bad gouge.

But the correction is made - that's the difference. Few comments go unscrutinzed here - like mine! I don't see that on Ed's forum, so people are free to speculate without correction.
http://www.fighter-pilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=182 High school student giving advice on what to tell the fiancee.

If I had a wife who didnt want me to join i would explain to her that the united states has the most advanced aircraft in the WORLD in..the...WORLD so there is nothing to worry about and it also depends on what you wanna fly to because if you want to fly bombers even better because your enemy would be sleep deprevation and you would be higher than the enemy and you would have fighters always on hand to protect you if anything did go wrong.

http://www.fighter-pilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13&highlight=Marines are getting the Superhornet? (again, no corrections)

MARINES

for a couple of reasons the Pilot of course. but also the fact that in 2011 the marines should be recieving the JSF so people will be able to chose from two great planes the F/A-18 E/F and the JSF. the air force is advanced in plane tech but there criteria is bombing and so what if they have they F-22 its not like they will get as much action as a MARINE pilots will.

Hey, I understand why Mr. Rush wouldn't want to bite his customers, and unfortunately, it appears he's the only (active) adult on the forum. But the content there is worse than at f-16.net or the like.

P.S. with my luck, I'll run into Mr. Rush as an IP.