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Caucasian, Guy, Bdcp Selects. ?????

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I'm ostensibly white, but I get really, really dark in da summa'. Or when in da Territory. Darker den da Bruddahs ....

Dey didn't know what I was .... dat's what fooled 'em in my case ...


beachboyswq9.jpg
 

guim13

New Member
A simple question was asked, why dont we get some data instead of talking sh*t. Your a BDCP select, say when you got selected and what race you are, and the numbers should speak for themselves.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I just wanted to know if this site dedicated to selection of Aviation types . . . .

I could be wrong here, but I think this site is about Naval Aviation and the wings "we" wear that distinguish our profession of arms. It's also about humor, combat, death, camaraderie, friendship, and patriotism. I don't think this site is about a data-mining effort for some self-serving cause which has the potential to discredit the very members this site was meant to serve.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I could be wrong here, but I think this site is about Naval Aviation and the wings "we" wear that distinguish our profession of arms. It's also about humor, combat, death, camaraderie, friendship, and patriotism. I don't think this site is about a data-mining effort for some self-serving cause which has the potential to discredit the very members this site was meant to serve.

Excellent .... well said.
 

Goob83

Active Member
None
I could be wrong here, but I think this site is about Naval Aviation and the wings "we" wear that distinguish our profession of arms. It's also about humor, combat, death, camaraderie, friendship, and patriotism. I don't think this site is about a data-mining effort for some self-serving cause which has the potential to discredit the very members this site was meant to serve.

I could agree with you; however, I have three guys I think need to be in the BDCP program and I am trying to figure out why on earth they have not been selected.

To date I have had three responses from folks all with good stats. The three guys I think should be in have all made 72 or better on the ASTB and 7 or above in all other parts of the test. One made 78, 999 and was not accepted. Additionally, his GPA is 3.8 in Mechanical ENG. His kit is nothing but impressive. Well all of their kits are impressive.

I think it may be because they are two years out from graduation, but I am not sure. I was hoping to lock up some information to guide them to selection.

So, if we are all upset at me please give me some data so, I can better mentor these folks thru the process and not have them become upset and say screw the Navy.

They view this site and while looking at stats two of them hwve become disappointed because they did a stat search and probably had high hopes for selection, because they are way above the norm WRT test scores major and GPA.

I know without a doubt if they were to walk in with a diploma and these scores they would be accepted. I just want them to get accepted for BDCP and lock their future down vice having to wonder if it is possible.

So if I can get any information here to help vice being bashed that would be great. I have no reason to be self-serving and I have no idea why you would think as such. My job is to be a mentor and serve those that want to get wings. While doing so, I am also responsible for finding the best person possible to replace you when your too old and can no longer provide a service to your country.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I could agree with you; however, I have three guys I think need to be in the BDCP program and I am trying to figure out why on earth they have not been selected.

To date I have had three responses from folks all with good stats. The three guys I think should be in have all made 72 or better on the ASTB and 7 or above in all other parts of the test. One made 78, 999 and was not accepted. Additionally, his GPA is 3.8 in Mechanical ENG. His kit is nothing but impressive. Well all of their kits are impressive.

I think it may be because they are two years out from graduation, but I am not sure. I was hoping to lock up some information to guide them to selection.

So, if we are all upset at me please give me some data so, I can better mentor these folks thru the process and not have them become upset and say screw the Navy.

They view this site and while looking at stats two of them hwve become disappointed because they did a stat search and probably had high hopes for selection, because they are way above the norm WRT test scores major and GPA.

I know without a doubt if they were to walk in with a diploma and these scores they would be accepted. I just want them to get accepted for BDCP and lock their future down vice having to wonder if it is possible.

So if I can get any information here to help vice being bashed that would be great. I have no reason to be self-serving and I have no idea why you would think as such. My job is to be a mentor and serve those that want to get wings. While doing so, I am also responsible for finding the best person possible to replace you when your too old and can no longer provide a service to your country.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

Need I say more ??? The selection process is complicated and stressful and unfair and fair and so many other things. If you truly desire entry into "our" fraternity, then you WILL be successful. Stop looking for reasons and excuses when none exists. Ask your prospective candidate's one question: "How bad do you want this?" The rest will take care of itself.
 

Goob83

Active Member
None
Well for these three guys I hope persistance is the key and discouragement is not futile. You are correct they will be successful, but i don't want them to have to wait till graduation when the BDCP program is such an awesome deal.
 

Godspeed

His blood smells like cologne.
pilot
I think I have some information that could really help you out goob. It isn't raw data, but a mere collection of some personal experiences of mine.

First of all, I'm in OCS currently. Over my 9 weeks here so far, I've made friends with, and become familiar with many of the candidates (and now Ensigns in many cases) of classes 15-07, 16-07, 17-07, 18-07, 19-07, and 20-07. I was a candidate in both classes 19-07, and 20-07. So I think it is safe to say I observed a very large population of BDCPers (i'd say at least 75-100 or so). Of all of them, I can only thing of a handfull, but certainly no more than 10, that weren't caucasian.

So I have to say, based on what i've seen, there isn't any evidence whatsoever supporting your claim (that race plays a factor in selection).

As my recruiter (who was very seasoned and experienced) told me, it is all a game of timing and numbers. That's it. He's seen the most competitve candidates get turned away cold when things were tight, and candidates with weak packages selected mere months later.

Also, my selection fully supports this. I applied for BDCP back in 04. High astb score, outstanding LORs, and I had a 3.9 in Aerospace engineering at ERAU. I was president of a couple clubs, had flying experience, etc. Thought I had it in the bag. I was turned away cold for both pilot and NFO.

I reapplied 4 times. Last attempt I applied with a 3.0 gpa in management (much less competitive for many obvious reasons). I was selected within 2 weeks. My race didn't change.

Bottom line; unless this unusually high number of non caucasian BDCP selectees (in comparison to caucasian BDCP selectees) are getting trained somewhere other than OTCP, the argument that race is playing a significant role in the selection process these days simply has no merit.

-----End of analysis, beginning of personal opinion-----

I am not as educated as you in the arts of recruiting, nor about the background of the BDCP program. But unless i'm missing something major here, I think it is harmful to jump to such bold and dangerous conclusions.

There are so many factors and components that go into a BDCP selection. I remember taking the better part of a year to assemble all of them for my package. To ignore all of these factors and focus in on a 1/4 inch checkmarked box on one of the dozens of pages that comprise the package, and suggest that race is what it boils down to is in my humble opinion ignorant, and most importantly unfair to those non-caucasians that worked hard to be where they are today.
 

Goob83

Active Member
None
I think I have some information that could really help you out goob. It isn't raw data, but a mere collection of some personal experiences of mine.

First of all, I'm in OCS currently. Over my 9 weeks here so far, I've made friends with, and become familiar with many of the candidates (and now Ensigns in many cases) of classes 15-07, 16-07, 17-07, 18-07, 19-07, and 20-07. I was a candidate in both classes 19-07, and 20-07. So I think it is safe to say I observed a very large population of BDCPers (i'd say at least 75-100 or so). Of all of them, I can only thing of a handfull, but certainly no more than 10, that weren't caucasian.

So I have to say, based on what i've seen, there isn't any evidence whatsoever supporting your claim (that race plays a factor in selection).

As my recruiter (who was very seasoned and experienced) told me, it is all a game of timing and numbers. That's it. He's seen the most competitve candidates get turned away cold when things were tight, and candidates with weak packages selected mere months later.

Also, my selection fully supports this. I applied for BDCP back in 04. High astb score, outstanding LORs, and I had a 3.9 in Aerospace engineering at ERAU. I was president of a couple clubs, had flying experience, etc. Thought I had it in the bag. I was turned away cold for both pilot and NFO.

I reapplied 4 times. Last attempt I applied with a 3.0 gpa in management (much less competitive for many obvious reasons). I was selected within 2 weeks. My race didn't change.

Bottom line; unless this unusually high number of non caucasian BDCP selectees (in comparison to caucasian BDCP selectees) are getting trained somewhere other than OTCP, the argument that race is playing a significant role in the selection process these days simply has no merit.

-----End of analysis, beginning of personal opinion-----

I am not as educated as you in the arts of recruiting, nor about the background of the BDCP program. But unless i'm missing something major here, I think it is harmful to jump to such bold and dangerous conclusions.

There are so many factors and components that go into a BDCP selection. I remember taking the better part of a year to assemble all of them for my package. To ignore all of these factors and focus in on a 1/4 inch checkmarked box on one of the dozens of pages that comprise the package, and suggest that race is what it boils down to is in my humble opinion ignorant, and most importantly unfair to those non-caucasians that worked hard to be where they are today.

Thanks for your input I am not saying race is the play for selection or is significant in selection I am just trying to poll folks to see if the stats over the last two years Favor diversity or not. The selection process is like throwing darts and we all recognize that. Of the 24 folks I put in this year so far I only Had 1 BDCP select Pilot. this is only about BDCP PILOT nothing else. I have three folks that have 100 times better application than the one selected and they are not being selected. I know what qualifies as a good kit. Hopefully this time they will make it but as you may or may not know they are not able to reapply for 6 months unless there is significant change in the application the only change they can have is new transcripts. so it is frustrating having to make them wait for new transcripts to apply again, I don't think folks that made 72+ and 9 9 9 should take the test again. ANY way from the replies on this site to date only three white guys have been accepted to BDCP in the last three years and all the scores were well below what I posted above. So it may be my guys are not close enough to graduation two of the three were seniors when accepted. maybe the navy does not want to pay the full two years authorized for BDCP who knows. When they get around to applying 3 or 4 time they will be seniors.

any hoo thanks for your input and if you find anything else that may help me get these guys in BDCP let me know. They will be at OCS I just want to get them in BDCP now.
 
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