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Breakdown of "The Drama"

villanelle

Nihongo dame desu
Contributor
My family members tease each other and we manage to laugh about it.

You got your panties in a twist because of a half joke about a bunion and a "stab, stab" SWO joke? Your family sounds unspeakably boring if you can't even give each other mild shit about anything, and you consider mild teasing to be showing a lack of respect.

Any negativity "blossoming" toward you seems to me to be more about your inability to take a (mild) joke and the chip on your shoulder, and not your choice of community.

There is a very vocal faction of this community that is fervently anti-marriage. As a wife, I laugh at their jokes, manage to see some truth in them, and even make some self-depricating jokes of my own. That's what has worked since time immemorial and on playgrounds 'round the world. If you cry and stomp your foot indignantly when someone steals your ball, your ball is going to get stolen a lot. If you laugh, you might make a friend.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Some of the SWO jokes here are also grounded in a bit of truth. When you've actually been to sea, you'll understand it. So it's really not that big a deal.
As someone who actually IS a SWO and has been here for a while, I can say that I feel about as "welcome" as can be expected.
What he said... after all, this is a Naval Aviation website. Other communities are welcome; however, this does not come with immunity from the occasional bashing of other services/communities/platforms, known as "Ready Room" humour. a staple of 'Airdaleism' (without which deployments would be unbearable).

As for SWO-tweaking here, it is actually quite rare and relatively mild compared to ~4 years ago when I reported aboard. Problems arise when posts intended as humour, upset one or more of the "easily offended", often newbies. When you originally enter the AW portal, it's best not to leave your sense of humour behind.:)
It's also to be expected that aviators may come across like they think they're the Masters of the Universe. Most people like to think they're pretty awesome.
Naw... not the universe, merely the skies! Most people are pretty awesome, each in their own way.:p
So...my advice again, don't show weakness. Admitting that stupid things like this bother you is, if you don't want to call it weakness, something people will gleefully exploit. Especially aviators. They're like jackals.
BigRed is right, just laugh or ignore, but leave the "whine behine". When Airdales run out of non-aviation/other community targets, like jackals, we'll turn on each other... that's when the real fun begins!:eek:
Jackal-1.jpg

BzB
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
BEAUTIFULLY said!! I absolutely agree! Well, I don't have all of the experience nor the knowledge you have on the subjects that you discussed, but I will say this: Respect toward other naval communities on this site really is waning. It is hard for people who decide to go SWO to feel truly welcome. I have seen the negativity blossom toward myself and to several other folks before me. I absolutely love this site for so many reasons including the information it provides and the comradery it allows to develop. It really would make this place far better if steps were taken to make the communities feel more like a family. As far as I'm concerned, it's the Navy. It's NOT the naval aviators and then some other insignificant people who do other stuff.

SWOs are Awesome! When they do their jobs right they make showers hot and unclog the shitters. Thanks to them it's like having a live in super in a really really shitty oceanfront condo. ;)
 
P

ProudNavyLady

Guest
Okay, now hold on! I am getting feedback such as, "You can't take a joke," "You're showing weakness," "These things happen, so accept it and move on,"...

Here's my response. I understand that jokes happen. I get that. I've mentioned that. It's not that I don't understand that. I just think that it isn't healthy to continue negativity toward a certain community. Has it gotten better? BusyBee says it has. My point is that I have read it directed at others and have seen those others not post much afterward because of it. It could just be some light-hearted jokes at times, but it could also be complete negativity that aims fresh guys away from a career they could potentially love due to the bad taste in others' mouths.

As far as just watching people get talked to in a rude way and seeing it as humor...well, that is something I don't appreciate. Some are jokes. Jokes are fine. tey are in good fun. As far as what was directed at me, I believe it was all just jokes and games and not meant to be offensive. I just personally like to see things be helpful and cordial instead of immediately turned into potential put downs about a certain position. I don't plan on contributing to that behavior, and I certainly don't want others discouraged to get an officer position in the navy because of the behavior.

I am just trying to assert that there are newbies on this site that see a lot of rejection of SWO's and truly don't know how to feel about the career they thought they wanted. It would be a ton more helpful to these new folks if they got more advice based on helpful information rather than mindless bashing.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Respect toward other naval communities on this site really is waning

How long have you been a member of this site? Since February? I assure you, the standard community back and forth has not changed one bit in over 10 years. You're the new guy/gal here.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
This is airwarriors not sailorbob... If you want encouragement about a career as a SWO what brought you to an aviation website? That makes as much sense as going to sailorbob to find out how to become a Naval Aviator... If it was for ASTB and OCS resources than use the site for that. Any further lurking that causes you to see negativity being voiced about the SWO community is your own fault. And that negativity is probably a good thing as it provides an opposing argument to websites that would have you believe that life as a SWO is all sunshine and rainbows where you see the world and "immediately gain leadership experience." Maybe some people that would be very unhappy in the SWO profession read some of the issues that are a reality in that community and decide not to pursue a career that would leave them unhappy and the Naval Service with a dissatisfied sub-par Officer. If the ribbing that is sometimes based in reality is too much for you... Move on to another site.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
Not too long, zab. That's why I feel so passionate about what I am talking about! I was one of the fresh people reading the bashing and hate on the SWO's. I kept thinking, "Does absolutely no one in this profession like their job? Should I maybe go a different route? What in the world is all of this hate about?" It wasn't until I talked to a few SWO's on the phone about all my concerns that I started to see the job as something I could do again. I don't want anyone to become doubtful and confused like I was and get a distorted picture of what the job entails. That's where the heart of this whole concern of mine lies.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
This is airwarriors not sailorbob... If you want encouragement about a career as a SWO what brought you to an aviation website? That makes as much sense as going to sailorbob to find out how to become a Naval Aviator... If it was for ASTB and OCS resources than use the site for that. Any further lurking that causes you to see negativity being voiced about the SWO community is your own fault. And that negativity is probably a good thing as it provides an opposing argument to websites that would have you believe that life as a SWO is all sunshine and rainbows where you see the world and "immediately gain leadership experience." Maybe some people that would be very unhappy in the SWO profession read some of the issues that are a reality in that community and decide not to pursue a career that would leave them unhappy and the Naval Service with a dissatisfied sub-par Officer. If the ribbing that is sometimes based in reality is too much for you... Move on to another site.

Spot-fucking-on.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
This is airwarriors not sailorbob... If you want encouragement about a career as a SWO what brought you to an aviation website? That makes as much sense as going to sailorbob to find out how to become a Naval Aviator... If it was for ASTB and OCS resources than use the site for that. Any further lurking that causes you to see negativity being voiced about the SWO community is your own fault. And that negativity is probably a good thing as it provides an opposing argument to websites that would have you believe that life as a SWO is all sunshine and rainbows where you see the world and "immediately gain leadership experience." Maybe some people that would be very unhappy in the SWO profession read some of the issues that are a reality in that community and decide not to pursue a career that would leave them unhappy and the Naval Service with a dissatisfied sub-par Officer. If the ribbing that is sometimes based in reality is too much for you... Move on to another site.
Woah, xmid. Let me reiterate what's really going on here. When I first started all of my google searching at the beginning of my application process, it seemed that all of my questions always brought me straight back to here. It was wonderful! I had so many questions answered, there is a wealth of information, and I loved a ton of what I got out of it. It wasn't until much later that I actually discovered SailorBob due to it being more secretive and a bit tougher to join. But, like I said, I thoroughly loved this particular site and still do for how much it provides newcomers like me. I think I explained myself to the greatest of my abilities in an earlier post about my feelings toward "mindless bashing". You're saying "sometimes based in reality"...the information I have gotten on this site that talked about some of the real downsides of the job have been quite helpful. That's not the sort of thing I am talking about. It's good to hear truths about the job! I think the term "mindless bashing" refers to just that. Mindless bashing. That is what I am trying to get out here.
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Not too long, zab. That's why I feel so passionate about what I am talking about! I was one of the fresh people reading the bashing and hate on the SWO's. I kept thinking, "Does absolutely no one in this profession like their job? Should I maybe go a different route? What in the world is all of this hate about?" It wasn't until I talked to a few SWO's on the phone about all my concerns that I started to see the job as something I could do again. I don't want anyone to become doubtful and confused like I was and get a distorted picture of what the job entails. That's where the heart of this whole concern of mine lies.
There are lots of different flavored SWOs:
1. CRU/DES SWO
2. Amphib SWO
3. Small Boat SWO
4. MCM SWO
5. Nuke SWO....
....and others

Your experience as a SWO will vary wildly based on which boat you go to and who your CO is.....you may hate or love your job based on the aforementioned items plus what division and division chief you get....
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
There are lots of different flavored SWOs:
1. CRU/DES SWO
2. Amphib SWO
3. Small Boat SWO
4. MCM SWO
5. Nuke SWO....
....and others

Your experience as a SWO will vary wildly based on which boat you go to and who your CO is.....you may hate or love your job based on the aforementioned items plus what division and division chief you get....
So I've heard! I have heard some of the horror stories from SWO's I've talked to on the phone. What was important was that that I got the bad stuff AND the good stuff. One of the guys I talked to even quite his position because of his CO. I heard quite an earful on some of the ways things can get bad. Haha
 

PhrogLoop

Adulting is hard
pilot
Mindless bashing. That is what I am trying to get out here.
Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but what sounds like mindless bashing to you is actually informed by many years worth of deployments and experiences for many of us. Have some of us stereotyped SWOs and and Air Force guys and embellished stories for humor's sake? Guilty as charged. Welcome to our world. You asked in when you joined the site.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but what sounds like mindless bashing to you is actually informed by many years worth of deployments and experiences for many of us. Have some of us stereotyped SWOs and and Air Force guys and embellished stories for humor's sake? Guilty as charged. Welcome to our world. You asked in when you joined the site.
I've said my piece above and really have nothing more to add to it, really. What I CAN say is that I respect those who have been on many deployments and have several experiences. I am here on this site because I like so much about it and have gained a ton from what people have learned. I have expressed my one concern, taken a bit of a thrashing for it, but I still feel adamant about what I think. I'll always appreciate all those with their wings! So...I'm ready to bring this to a close and move on (hopefully others feel the same!).
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
I am just trying to assert that there are newbies on this site that see a lot of rejection of SWO's and truly don't know how to feel about the career they thought they wanted. It would be a ton more helpful to these new folks if they got more advice based on helpful information rather than mindless bashing.

Perhaps to the unwashed it's mindless bashing, but realistically the good natured ribbings that make fun of the truth. SWO life is different then life in aviation, one can't escape the truth of that. Many aviators on this website have had the unfortunate experience of being pulled away from their communities and tossed into traditional SWO jobs on a ship (TAO, OOD, OPS /ADMIN, ANAV to name a few). Why is it unfortunate? Because it's not the job they've trained to do... It'd be like taking a SWO and sending them on a tour with the Army- Sure, basic officership its the same but realistically the day to day experience is not going to transfer over to the duties you traditionally perform in your designator (Ship driving is not a skill that applies to life flying an airplane or playing in the dirt, unless you run aground of course). Many others have the opportunity to deploy side by side with SWOs as part of the helo det, and even as part of the Airwing.

Whats that mean in the big picture? Aviators get to observe SWOs in their own, foreign, environment on a regular basis so were going to highlight differences (getting saluted by warfare qual'd JGs as an LT is weird).

Does that mean I'd try to dissuade someone who wants to be a SWO from pursuing their dream? No, not at all. Does that mean I'm going to try to steer someone I know away from another community so they can follow in my footsteps? Absolutely, just like any SWO who has any sense of pride in their job and community would do the same.

IMO, if you can't be an aviator, or it doesn't appeal to you, then absolutely be a SWO... or a bubble head, or whatever the hell you want to be. It's a great leadership/middle management experience and you get to serve. Regardless of what job you do in the military (and yes they're all jobs at some point or another), you're still doing more for your country service wise then most of the rest of the population. I'm not going to shit on you for serving, but I'm going to treat you like everyone else and give you shit. We're all on the same team after all.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
Perhaps to the unwashed it's mindless bashing, but realistically the good natured ribbings that make fun of the truth. SWO life is different then life in aviation, one can't escape the truth of that. Many aviators on this website have had the unfortunate experience of being pulled away from their communities and tossed into traditional SWO jobs on a ship (TAO, OOD, OPS /ADMIN, ANAV to name a few). Why is it unfortunate? Because it's not the job they've trained to do... It'd be like taking a SWO and sending them on a tour with the Army- Sure, basic officership its the same but realistically the day to day experience is not going to transfer over to the duties you traditionally perform in your designator (Ship driving is not a skill that applies to life flying an airplane or playing in the dirt, unless you run aground of course). Many others have the opportunity to deploy side by side with SWOs as part of the helo det, and even as part of the Airwing.

Whats that mean in the big picture? Aviators get to observe SWOs in their own, foreign, environment on a regular basis so were going to highlight differences (getting saluted by warfare qual'd JGs as an LT is weird).

Does that mean I'd try to dissuade someone who wants to be a SWO from pursuing their dream? No, not at all. Does that mean I'm going to try to steer someone I know away from another community so they can follow in my footsteps? Absolutely, just like any SWO who has any sense of pride in their job and community would do the same.

IMO, if you can't be an aviator, or it doesn't appeal to you, then absolutely be a SWO... or a bubble head, or whatever the hell you want to be. It's a great leadership/middle management experience and you get to serve. Regardless of what job you do in the military (and yes they're all jobs at some point or another), you're still doing more for your country service wise then most of the rest of the population. I'm not going to shit on you for serving, but I'm going to treat you like everyone else and give you shit. We're all on the same team after all.
Well said. :)
 
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