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Breakdown of "The Drama"

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
......Here's my response. I understand that jokes happen. I get that. I've mentioned that. It's not that I don't understand that. I just think that it isn't healthy to continue negativity toward a certain community........As far as just watching people get talked to in a rude way and seeing it as humor...well, that is something I don't appreciate. Some are jokes. Jokes are fine. tey are in good fun. As far as what was directed at me, I believe it was all just jokes and games and not meant to be offensive.......I am just trying to assert that there are newbies on this site that see a lot of rejection of SWO's and truly don't know how to feel about the career they thought they wanted. It would be a ton more helpful to these new folks if they got more advice based on helpful information rather than mindless bashing.
The military often is a 'rough and tumble' environment to work in no matter the branch or billet or even country in many cases, I can say that having worked with all the services and several countries. While this site is arguably one of the better unofficial resources on the internets for officer accessions into the Navy, and a lesser degree the Marines and Coast Guard, it is still a site for Naval Aviation and naturally focused on that even if it is at the expense of our brothers and sisters who do other jobs in the services. Can the 'joking' bite sometimes? Sure, but that is the way it is in real life so get used to it. When you have earned your pin feel free to give as good as you get, we can take it.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
The military often is a 'rough and tumble' environment to work in no matter the branch or billet or even country in many cases, I can say that having worked with all the services and several countries. While this site is arguably one of the better unofficial resources on the internets for officer accessions into the Navy, and a lesser degree the Marines and Coast Guard, it is still a site for Naval Aviation and naturally focused on that even if it is at the expense of our brothers and sisters who do other jobs in the services. Can the 'joking' bite sometimes? Sure, but that is the way it is in real life so get used to it. When you have earned your pin feel free to give as good as you get, we can take it.
Like I said, I'm not a fan of the bashing, so when I finally earn my pin I wish to set the example of how I feel about the matter at hand. As stated above, I really don't have more to add.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
I think the term "mindless bashing" refers to just that. Mindless bashing. That is what I am trying to get out here.
Well welcome (potentially) to the Navy! You are going to get much more mindless bashing about everything from being a SWO, to enlisted members mindlessly bashing officers, to mindlessly bashing whatever readyness/safety/QA/fill in the blank program you are working very hard on. It's part of the deal. The mostly playful shitting on that SWO's get here is just the start. Inside communities (like aviation) there is even bashing on different platforms ie. Jet guys hate on helo guys and vice versa. This website is a small glimpse at the inside of a wardroom, but an aviation wardroom. You may want to consider that before moving forward. Like I said most of the mindless bashing is at least loosely based on truths. The same could be said if you went to another unrelated job web site like SailorBob and tried to gain a glimpse of the Aviation side of the house.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
Well welcome (potentially) to the Navy! You are going to get much more mindless bashing about everything from being a SWO, to enlisted members mindlessly bashing officers, to mindlessly bashing whatever readyness/safety/QA/fill in the blank program you are working very hard on. It's part of the deal. The mostly playful shitting on that SWO's get here is just the start. Inside communities (like aviation) there is even bashing on different platforms ie. Jet guys hate on helo guys and vice versa. This website is a small glimpse at the inside of a wardroom, but an aviation wardroom. You may want to consider that before moving forward. Like I said most of the mindless bashing is at least loosely based on truths. The same could be said if you went to another unrelated job web site like SailorBob and tried to gain a glimpse of the Aviation side of the house.
What I said to Flash. :) I get what you are saying, though! It's not hitting deaf ears.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
The military often is a 'rough and tumble' environment to work in no matter the branch or billet or even country in many cases, I can say that having worked with all the services and several countries.
This probably stems from the fact that when you get right down to it, whether you are the bean counter that makes sure the troops get fed, or the SEAL that drops Bin Laden, we are collectively in the business of killing other people and breaking their shit (or at the very least making people think we are capable and willing to do so). It is a rough and tumble business. We are not a fortune 500 company and trying to emulate one only detracts from the guys at the end of the spear's ability to do their job. Is there a certain amount of community rivalry that causes us to shit on each other from time to time? Sure. So sack up and remember this isn't a t-ball team.
 
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ProudNavyLady

Guest
This probably stems from the fact that when you get right down to it, whether you are the bean counter that makes sure the troops get fed, or the SEAL that drops Bin Laden, we are collectively in the business of killing other people and breaking their shit (or at the very least making people think we are capable and willing to do so). It is a rough and tumble business. We are not a fortune 500 company and trying to emulate one only detracts from the guys at the end of the spear's ability to do their job. Is there a certain amount of community rivalry that causes us to shit on each other from time to time? Sure. So sack up and remember this isn't a t-ball team.
Um...I think I have stated all of my feelings quite clearly above and don't know how to respond to this without reiterating the same stuff again and again. I hope I work with you soon and can't wait to be a part of the navy team.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Um...I think I have stated all of my feelings quite clearly above and don't know how to respond to this without reiterating the same stuff again and again. I hope I work with you soon and can't wait to be a part of the navy team.
You don't have to respond to every post. Taking advice doesn't always require one, especially where you are going.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
@ PNL: Steel yourself. It's easy to be idealistic when you don't have the experience to know any better. I have a feeling that you're in for a rude awakening on many fronts.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Some advice I learned early (and practice to this day), when you stick your head above the grass and take fire, sometimes it's best to just duck and cover. Someone else will stick their head up soon and they'll start drawing fire.

Heat on them is heat off you. I learned that was the first rule of SWO-thermodynamics!
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Site Admin
Contributor
Respect toward other naval communities on this site really is waning. It is hard for people who decide to go SWO to feel truly welcome. I have seen the negativity blossom toward myself and to several other folks before me.
There are a few things you need to understand though. First, the military is historically male dominated, and this site is reflective of that fact. Men interact with other men much differently than women interact with women. It's not good or bad. It just is. With that said, much of what you probably see as disrespectful toward others or being negative to a certain community is just men being men. We give each other shit....pretty much all the time. And when we do this to each other over the interwebs, it can seem disrespectful at times, even to other men. I have a very sarcastic personality, so folks who are unfamiliar with my sense of humor or lack thereof, have a hard time knowing I'm being serious or really rude. This is especially true here on this board. Second, it is likely you will never feel completely welcome here. What I said above certainly holds true in that this site has thrived on various mix of individuals that contribute and interact. However, it is still primarily an aviation website. I've been here the longest and I am still an outsider.

When I'm treated like a family member by the SWOs aboard USS Boat, then I'll stop making fun of their SWOters and predilection for fratricide. Designator friction is a fact of life in the fleet and donning rose colored glasses doesn't tend to make one's life any easier.
SWOters are gay. That said, having spent time with several helo dets on a cruiser and then countless aviators on the carrier, I never had any problem getting along with the vast majority them. The ones that rubbed my the wrong way were simply tools, and every community has their fair share of tools.

There is a very vocal faction of this community that is fervently anti-marriage.
I would hardly call Brett a faction. :D


As for SWO-tweaking here, it is actually quite rare and relatively mild compared to ~4 years ago
At first, I thought you said SWO-twerking.... :eek:


I assure you, the standard community back and forth has not changed one bit in over 10 years.
Yep, pretty much.

This is airwarriors not sailorbob... If you want encouragement about a career as a SWO what brought you to an aviation website?That makes as much sense as going to sailorbob to find out how to become a Naval Aviator...
Maybe it was that other sub-forum under Other U.S. Navy Communities and Specialities called Surface Warfare Officer (SWO). SailorBob has very little accessions info regarding the various communities in the Navy like Airwarriors does. That is why she came here and not SailorBob.

If it was for ASTB and OCS resources than use the site for that. Any further lurking that causes you to see negativity being voiced about the SWO community is your own fault.
So she did something wrong?

And that negativity is probably a good thing as it provides an opposing argument to websites that would have you believe that life as a SWO is all sunshine and rainbows where you see the world and "immediately gain leadership experience."
And what websites would those be that portray SWO life as sunshine and rainbows?

SWO life is different then life in aviation, one can't escape the truth of that. Many aviators on this website have had the unfortunate experience of being pulled away from their communities and tossed into traditional SWO jobs on a ship (TAO, OOD, OPS /ADMIN, ANAV to name a few). Why is it unfortunate? Because it's not the job they've trained to do... It'd be like taking a SWO and sending them on a tour with the Army- Sure, basic officership its the same but realistically the day to day experience is not going to transfer over to the duties you traditionally perform in your designator (Ship driving is not a skill that applies to life flying an airplane or playing in the dirt, unless you run aground of course). Many others have the opportunity to deploy side by side with SWOs as part of the helo det, and even as part of the Airwing.
One of my pet peeves on this site is when folks tell others what it's like to be in other communities outside of their own based only on what they see and hear. The fact of the matter is you really don't know. Just because we get to observe other communities in their element doesn't mean we have a clue what it's like to be in those communities day in and day out, year after year, as a career. We simply know what it's like to be in OUR community. Anything else and you're just passing along observations or second hand information. TAO and OOD isn't a SWO job, they're watches people stand. And yes they are traditionally stood by SWOs, yet I've seen supply types, aviatiors, chiefs, and even METOCs stand them. For that matter, standing TAO on a carrier isn't nearly as involved or complex as it is on something such as a CG or DDG, whereas standing OOD on the carrier compared to other ships certainly is more involved. Generally speaking, career oriented officers are going to get pulled away from their community and have to serve in some other area outside their general area of expertise at some point in their career.

Does that mean I'd try to dissuade someone who wants to be a SWO from pursuing their dream? No, not at all. Does that mean I'm going to try to steer someone I know away from another community so they can follow in my footsteps? Absolutely, just like any SWO who has any sense of pride in their job and community would do the same.
Why the need to steer anyone away from anything? Because you think you know what's best for them?

You don't have to respond to every post. Taking advice doesn't always require one, especially where you are going.
What he said.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Tweaking = as in "pinching one's nose" (in a friendly way).;)

Twerking = ??? Inquiring minds want to know?:eek:
BzB
 
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