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Boeing Tanker: Beans, Bullets, Oil, and politics .. and did we mention: politics ??

VetteMuscle427

is out to lunch.
None
Heyjoe... you seem pretty familiar with this whole process... what if Boeing were to create a new bid on a larger frame that would compete more with the Airbus? Would they be able to submit it late?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Heyjoe... you seem pretty familiar with this whole process... what if Boeing were to create a new bid on a larger frame that would compete more with the Airbus? Would they be able to submit it late?

I think it would be too little too late. They would have to recompete the whole contract, delaying it for years while the bids are submitted and examined again. You can't call do-over every time an American company loses.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Those jets are OLD and were not managed for flight life expectancy. Nobody flies any G-limited hornets. I have flown Lot 8-11 jets my entire Hornet career (almost the oldest jets still in existence that are still flying), and I have never flown a jet that was G-limited.

Navy planes have a lot more to put up with.. (corrosion, traps, cat shots)

Who says that the Navy would do any better with TRACOM birds? And they stay around for a lot longer than fleet jets. A-4's were retired from Navy frontline service in the 70's, but the TA-4 was only retired in '99.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
I think it would be too little too late. They would have to recompete the whole contract, delaying it for years while the bids are submitted and examined again. You can't call do-over every time an American company loses.

CSAR-X?
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None

-Boeing was selected in November 2006 to build 141 HH-47 aircraft at the Boeing Integrated Defense Systems' rotorcraft manufacturing facility in Ridley Park, Pa., home of the MH-47G Special Operations Chinook and the US Army CH-47 F Programs


-Competitors Sikorsky, offering the S-92, and Lockheed Martin / AgustaWestland, offering the US-101, have protested the Air Force decision to buy the Boeing HH-47, resulting in a work stoppage order on the previously awarded contract

-In response to the protests, the Air Force issued a new request for proposals in November 2007 to the three competitors

-Boeing submitted its revised proposal January 2008 to the US Air Force for another round of source selection

-Contract award is expected Summer 2008


Your tax dollars at work. :D
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
Yes, but... You skipped quite a few steps in that process that led to a re-award then an outright re-compete. It would take quite a few rounds of upheld protests plus political pressure to get to the point where they would re-compete with a different airframe.

Having said that, this was from all appearances one of the more meticulously performed contract awards; I think that USAF knew how closely they were being watched.
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
....sigh. We're never gonna see a new tanker fly, are we?

No matter who wins each round, their Congresspersons will be Outraged by the Highly Suspect Decisions and Unfair Process, cry Havoc and let slip the lawyers of war, "no fair! no fair! I wanna do-over!!!"
 

Junior

Registered User
pilot
There was a pretty good article in the February 2008 Marine Corps Gazette which investigated why it takes so long to get better equipment to the frontlines. The article is titled "One Single Nail" by LTCOL John E. McLean and, since he is a much more eloquent writer than I, I will quote him:
"The conspicuous lack of resolve in the national industrial base has been discussed repeatedly since the GWOT began. At the same time, however, there appears to be no driving force within the military-industrial complex to foster that resolve or motivate its replacement so as to achieve improvements in equipment design, production, and fielding." He continues, "Likewise, the aircraft industry has become so imbued with long-term, multi-billion dollar programs that, arguably, it has lost the ability to quickly devise, test, produce, and field aviation-related equipment"
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
"Likewise, the aircraft industry has become so imbued with long-term, multi-billion dollar programs that, arguably, it has lost the ability to quickly devise, test, produce, and field aviation-related equipment"

Ayup. In other news: rain is wet, the sun is hot, and I will never get to have sex with Jessica Biel.

There's more money to be made in prolonging the process than in actually producing anything. I'm generally pretty viciously opposed to modeling anything in DoD on business practices, but it seems to me the Pentagon could really use some better contract lawyers.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
....sigh. ...No matter who wins each round, their Congresspersons will be Outraged by the Highly Suspect Decisions and Unfair Process, cry Havoc and let slip the lawyers of war, "no fair! no fair! I wanna do-over!!!"

Which was kinda what happened this AM, led and verbalized by this gent:

CONG. Norm Dicks (D) Washington

You guys who think that military procurement is based on "merit" or a legitimate "process" are really precious in your naiveté ... it's ALWAYS about politics in the end.
Same-o, same-o for the BRAC process ... I've been there on that one. And make that politics IN or OUT of uniform, just for the record ... :eek:

'Cause it's ALWAYS about $$$$ in the end, which is, after all, the Mother's milk of politics. :eek:

The sooner you learn that, the less stress you will encounter in your later life outside the military.:)
 

brownshoe

Well-Known Member
Contributor
You guys who think that military procurement is based on "merit" or a legitimate "process" are really precious in your naiveté ... it's ALWAYS about politics in the end.

My world too… I’m about to get stiffed by an “8A” contractor for about $35,000.00 of T&M tickets on our last project at Detrick. The government, although sympathetic, is out in left field. Fvck the government procurement system.

Steve
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
My world too… I’m about to get stiffed by an “8A” contractor for about $35,000.00 of T&M tickets on our last project at Detrick. The government, although sympathetic, is out in left field. Fvck the government procurement system.

Steve

Wow. The government is doing such a great job with this! Maybe we should let them control our healthcare and childrens education?

Wait.....what thread am I in now?
 
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