Army flying

[Stearmann4]

Letters of Recommendation

Crice,

the comany letter of recommendation should come from your Division Officer. The battalion letter is synomous with the C.O. These two accompanied with your ltter from an Army Aviator (preferable CW4 or above) is all that should be included in your packet. I actually states on the web site that's all that wil be reviewed. I seesome guys putting in 5 or 6 letters from high school teacher, pastors, JROTC instructors. Nice flowers, but the board doesn't care. They have about 2 minutes tio review your wholepacket before they move on. Make it simple and easy for them to find the info they want to see.

Anymore questuions, giveme a yell.

 

[Jetjock863]

Hey, I finally got my AFAST score back: 133. Sounds decent, but who knows. My ASVAB was 95. I have the flight physical coming up and a board on april 20th., so we'll just wait and see. For those of you who are already a WO, how long did it take to hear back from the board? My recruiter told me about 2 weeks.

 

[cricechex]

Jetjock,
as for your interview (board), you will know how you did based on what they tell you. The main selection board held at USAREC will let you know within 2-3 weeks at most. At least that was my experience.

 

[cricechex]

Here it is, straight from USAREC itself:

I attended a briefing on the warrant officer program at Ft Eustis today. Here is what I learned.

- 60% of WOFT applicants are getting accepted right now.
- 30% of the WOFT selections come from civilian applicants.

What the evaluators are looking for are well rounded packets. Getting a 150 out of 170 on the AFAST won't get you into the program by itself. The average selectee gets around a 118-121 AFAST score. 130 is considered above average. You need a good APFT score and most important is the resume. Make sure you follow the guidelines put forth in the example on their website. For the personal statement, don't be arrogant or act like you are the best. Be humble but confident.

This is all information straight from the source; CW3 Edwards, who works right down the hall from where the board is held.

 

[Stearmann4]

For all of you guys trying to get into WOFT right now, let me give you a little bit of info from the "inside". The Warrant officer Community Manager has put out several times in the last year; "We're picking up more WOFT candidates this yeat than we have since Vietnam." If you've submitted a packet and you haven't gotten picked up, review your resume', and your letters of recommendation. There's a very specific format (available on the website), and if it's the least bit out of compliance, or you simply forgot to sign your name somewhere, it doesn't matter of you flew the Space Shuttle, you're a non-select. The bad part, you won't get any feedback why you weren't selected.

I don't know much about going from civilian to WOFT, but for ex-enlisted, the heirarchy seems to be they pickup mostly Army elisted, with the rest of the in-service slots distrubuted evenly between the Navy/AF/USMC. Translated, that may only equal 1 or 2 slots of Navy each board.

Do not rely on an Army recruiter to be your champion when it comes to getting a WOFT packet submitted. You'll be largely responsible for doing it yourself, and then just submit the finished product to him for forwarding. I never even talke to a recruiter when I was working on my stuff. I went to an Army base, said I needed to take an AFAST went to an Army flight surgeon (same trip) and said I needed a physical, and found a CW5 to schedule an aviator interview. I used the resume' format on the website and typed up my own. I did however have to use my Navy chain-of-command to get a letter of recommendation from my Division Officer and my C.O. I repeat, as I have in previous posts, you don't need 5-6 LORs. Also, your C.O will have to endorse your request for a Conditional release to be forwarded to BUPERs. Most guys think that if they have a flowery generic LOR from an Admiral/Senator, they're gold. The board would rather see a LOR written by a D.O., or employer that's know you for several years.

Lastly, as I was saying, I used a recruiter only to get a copy of the Army forms required for the application, sent in the whole packet myself, got accepted, and just went back to the recruiter to be processed into the Army. They do not like putting forth effort to put guys in to WOFT because they get no credit like they do for enlisting a guy. Do not be satisfied with the minimums, and be wary of anything they tell you. Look out for yourself, cuz' nobody else will.

The Army does allow PRK/LASIK. The link for waivers is also on the warrant officer recruiting web site. I believe however, you have to be at leat 1 year post-op to apply for a waiver.

Once your application goes in front of a board, if you've been selected, noby really notifies you, they pot the results on the website, and you just check it every day like a goof until you find your name. You then have to call the Army to negotiate a report in date. Once this is done, you go to your command, tell them when your report date is (have the Army fax a copy of your report orders) and start your checkout process.

You guys would do yourselves a large favor by forgetting about what "They", or "friend of mine" said about getting selected. Rumors abound. Just drive on with your applications. If there was ever a time to get picked up, it's now.

Trust me, I know the process, I was a PO1 SEAL for 12 years, and got selected Mar 02, now I'm flying MH-47Es for the 160th SOAR. The Army's definitely different, but worth the hassle if you really want to fly. I'd be happy to send a copy of my resume/application for those who need a "Navy" format to look at. I've had several friends copy it verbatim and get picked up. I'm currently out-of-town but I'll be back at the end of April.

Mike-

 

[Stearmann4]

After reading some of the recommendations on informing your chain of command of your intentions to submit a WOFT application; Let me add my my 2 cents.

As one guy indicated, you may be able to complete your application (except LORs from your chain), without letting anyone know up to a point. Your chain will obviously have to be informed when you ask for letters from your D.O., and C.O. Also, your C.O. will have to endorse your request for a conditional release prior to it being forwarded to BUPERs. This is the last step in your applcation process before you send your stuff to the Army.

My sincere recommendation, if you've got issues with your chain of command, you'll have to resolve them on your own, but if you're the average squared away Sailor, here's the preferred method of breaking it to your chain;

First, notify your Division officer of your intentions, and your proposed timeline. Secondly, inform him that at some point,you'd like to request Mast to give the same speech to the C.O. since he'll be required to write you a recommendation. A great technique, is to make a binder with all of your qualifications. First page should be a cover letter stating why you want the program, and why they should support you in the process. The second section should have all a chronological listing of all your accomplishments(awards, quals, etc.) in resume format. This will be good practice, as it should be similiar to the resume you're required to submit for your WOFT packet. Make 2, one for the D.O., one for the C.O. This may seem like an extra hassle, but as an officer, let me tell you how readily this displays your sincere intent and desire to be a productive officer. These resumes allow the officers something to read at their leisure to familiarize themselves with your past performance and background, a(s most C.O.s won't really know much about you beyond name and shop.) This is fairly important since it gives them some "meat" with which to write you a letter of recommendation.

Lastly, prior to your request for a Conditional release being sent to your detailer, at the very least, send him/her a courtesy email a couple of weeks out with some of the same verbage you told your C.O. This goes far to soften the blow of your request to "jump ship", and shows a high degree of profesionalism and integrity.

You may try to back door technique, but in the end, you'll have your hands full and leave on bad terms. Trust me when I provide a little professional development; DO NOT EVER BURN BRIDGES!, it always comes back to you.

Speaking openly with your chain of command makes them want to assist you in your goals. Sharp-shooting, or catching them off guard makes them resent your tactics, and they'll grudgingly assist, if only under threat of violating some reg. Every commander likes to know exactly what's going on in his command. It's much easier having your intentions out in the open. Again, if you're a good Sailor, this shouldn't be a problem. There it is...take it or leave it.

 

[wink]

Once again, great advice from Stearman. As someone who has been on STA-21 boards and personally promoted WOFT for a couple sailors, I can say Stearmans approach is about as good as you can get. Keep in mind, the approach he recommends will work for any tough sell. If you need a strong recommendation for a change of rate, officer designator transfer, change of fleet aircraft, etc, follow Stearmans approach and you will not only inform your leadership much more effectively, but impress them beyond simple qualifications and personal desires. All that said. Any skipper that would not endorse a chit to apply for STA-21 or give a release to an enlisted man to become an officer is not much of a CO. I, personally, have never seen a request for a conditional release to pursue a commmission turned down.

 

[Jetjock863]

Stearman,

Could you possibly give us the link to that website with the afformentioned formats? As a civilian, I have pretty much needed to use a recruiter for most of this. To be honest, he did not even tell me to submit a resume, but I did anyways. I'll hopefully be ready for the April board, but my phase II of my physical (passed phase I) could be later than expected-we'll see. Anywas, thanks for the info/heads up. And lastly, the head recruiter kind of suggested to me yesterday that OCS spots are easier to get right now-he didn't really discourage me from going for WOFT but suggested it was more competitive. Based on what you said about them giving so many spots this year, do you think that a very, very small percentage will go to civvies? Thanks again.

 

[orthaj]

somebody had a post asking about the guard...well here is what i know about it.

Here is my story.I was prior enlisted Marines, did my four years, got out, went to school and joined the guard as an 11B. Got promoted to Sgt and expressed interest ing the WOFT program. I went through a couple of Interviews with my Company Commander and Bn Commander and got the ok from them. From there I interviewed with the Aviation Bn Co for a WO slot that would open. I was accepted to fill the slot and would have had to transfer over the Aviation Bn/Regt until I went to WOFT. I was informed I would have to wait about two years to go WO flight school. I didn't end up going that route, the Army just wasn't for me, I transferred back the Marines on an Air Contract and if everything works out right I will be training complete with primary at NSE tommorrow night.
I can't say with any certainty that this is how things are working for the guard these days. I went through the interview process back in 2000, before 9-11 and six month deployments to Iraq and Afganistan were SOP for guard units.

 

[Stearmann4]

The Warrant Officer recruiting web site is:http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/. It's got just about every piece if information you could want for WOFT for interservice transfers and civilians...you just have to dig to find all the info, but it's in there.

In regards to the OCS/WOCS question, OCS may well be easier to get into, but there is no guarantee that you'll be branched aviation. You might find yourself an NBC officer or riding around in a Bradley, (of which I'd rather drink snot). WOFT assures you orders directly to Ft Rucker. The difference between "regular" officers and warrants in a flying unit is up for much debate. Short explanation; if you want to fly your whole career, go warrant, if you want to wear wings, but don't mind being a manager the majority of the time, OCS may work for you.

As for the Guard, it varies from state to state, but you generally have to enlist in a unit for at least a year or so, before they'll spend the money to send you to flight school.

Mike-

 

[KWpilot]

I am an Army Warrant Officer who was prior Navy enlisted and if any one has any questions about the WOFT program I will be more than happy to give you the dirt. After being in the Army for 5 years and getting close to the end of my obligation. I am seeking to get back into the Navy. Army life IS NOT LIKE THE NAVY. As a Warrant Officer you are not in charge of anything and you are treated like you are enlisted. the only time you are treated like an Officer is when the unit comes around looking for money for some ones going away gift. So for all of you out there I recommend that you finish college do well in school and GO NAVY.

 

[lance]

I am from Kansas NAVY-BDCP-Pilot, I got 3 friends, plus a few more, in the Air Guard. I also spoke with there recruiters, and one of my friends uncle's is a Lt. Col. According to him (Lt COL) and all the recruiters they are recruiting spots from within first then they are looking outside to college graduates.
HOWEVER, The situation here in kansas is that the school we attend is an Aviation School, and all the applicates have prior flight experiance, with all civilian ratings excluding an ATP and type ratings.-may need to take that into consideration.
Don't take this the wrong way just giving you my side of the many sides of the story. If you have a college degree it is the next best thing to serving a little enlisted time with flight experience.

 

[wink]

Just to keep things clear as mud, aircav is talking about, and most all this thread is about, Army flying to include the NG, as a Warrant Officer. That is why the reference to college, since a degree is not required to be a Warrant Officer in the Army. If you are talking Air NG then that is Air Force and they do require a degree to be a commissioned officer and pilot. Lance is right that most NG and ANG units look within to enlisted members for officer and pilot applicants first. Applying for the Army Warrant Officer Flight Training Program is a whole other animal though.

 

[lance]

Good Call WINK

 

[KWpilot]

Do Navy Pilots Fly this LOW?