Whether that was a serious question or not...good poke! You made me laugh :icon_lol:
Nothing personnel intended to Uncle Fester - at all - good debate, good pokes, good passion.
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Are stories of the SWO community valid?
- Thread starter jameskalder
- Start date
Whether that was a serious question or not...good poke! You made me laugh :icon_lol:
Nothing personnel intended to Uncle Fester - at all - good debate, good pokes, good passion.
A good example of that was about 2-3 years ago there were a few "waterfront joinups" at the Breezy Point club in Norfolk (maybe I have the wrong club... but anyway). I'm pretty sure that SURFLANT* started this, sent out an email or a GENADMIN message, to all the ships and afloat commands, in classic SWO style with remarks about esprit des corps, etc. etc. Picture Friday afternoon mandatory fun (with beer), but you know what? This was actually a pretty good idea!
I can personally attest that I witnessed senior SWOs displaying a sense of humor too. At one of those joinups (yes, participation was highly encouraged) they had some aviator-only skill contest about some SWO knowledge. The prize they had ready was something like a framed picture of a black shoe/SWO pin/something like that- and they gave it to the winning brownshoe and did a pretty funny job pulling off the gag in front of everyone. I got a good laugh out of that. You gotta be impressed by anyone who makes fun of you and is clever doing it...
So yeah, I'd say there is more than just a glimmer of hope.
*not quite the mothership of SWOdom, more like the local proxy for it
Seafort
Made His Bed, Is Now Lying In It
No originality - pick a different bumber sticker :icon_mi_5
Friends support friends in whatever THEY CHOOSE to do - unless they want to do something really dumb and join the Air Force. :icon_wink
johnritenour@co
Registered User
SWO's Are Unprofessional Backstabbers!
All SWO's seem to suffer from Airedale Envy. The aviation community is the most professional and squared away group within the US Navy. I was a SNFO in the Navy. Four months into the pipeline, I got the dreaded NAMI Whammy due to sinus problems. I asked first to be released from active duty, or to be transferred to General Aviation Duty. But instead - I was selected to attend Surface Warfare Officers School. I have never attended a more poorly run, unprofessional training program in all of my time in the Navy. When the instructors discovered I was an Aviation attrite, they referred to me as a ..."piece of f***king Airedale garbage." I was informed I should feel "privileged" because the SWO Community was willing to accept me. When I told them that I was "drafted", and was selected to attend SWOS, despite my desire to resign my commission, they didn't have a while lot to say, except to grumble a lot. The courses basically duplicated what I learned in NROTC - without cracking a book I had a 3.96 GPA. They were all a waste of time.
When I reported to my first ship, I knew right away I was screwed. I was stationed aboard a MSO - Ocean going Minesweeper. The CO learned I was an aviation attrite - and things went downhill in a hurry. Besides having a pathological hatred for all things aviation, he also hated ROTC students. Finally , making things even worse, he suffered from Short Man's disease - he was 5'8" - I am 6'5".
To give you an idea of just how unprofessional this individual (the Minesweeper CO) was, consider this little episode. I was commissioned a reservist because the Senate wasn't in session when I graduated. Naval Recruiting Command sent my Regular Commission to the ship. Instead of delivering it to me as required by Navy Regs, he sat on it. He then did a SWO letter of non-attainment on me - and tried to have me kicked out of the Navy - claiming I had declined to accept my regular commission. I was on the ship for seven months before he kicked me off. During that time, there were 35 conversations in the Wardroom centering around how useless Aviators were, and how they didn't understand responsibility, or the meaning of professionalism. I asked the Captain and my fellow officers, how the Skipper of a Carrier would feel about such remarks. Their replies..." They get paid to much - they have plenty of officers running around to do their job for them..." So anyway - he kicks me off of the ship - without orders - on a Friday Afternoon. I knew exactly what he had in mind - so I reported to the CINCLANT duty officer (CINCLANT being the SOPA - Senior Officer Present Ashore) and explained the situation to him. I informed him that on Monday, when the ship got underway - I would be reported as missing movement. I wanted to head off any problems with being reported UA (UN-Authorized Absence). The duty officer attempted to phone the CO of my ship to get a read on the situation - but the he (the CO) refused to talk to him. At least I had covered my six - because on the following Monday I was marked UA and reported as missing movement. Eventually, I was assigned to Little Creek Amphib Base. Then there was a change of command on-board my ship. The New Commanding Officer summoned me to report to him - and proceeded to tear me apart. The MSO was a reserve ship, and I was still being carried as part of the crew. He blamed me for being even more short handed than usual and asked why did I allow myself to be kicked off of the ship - and why the hell did they send us another Airedale Waste Product. He then told me to ..."get the f**k off of my ship and don't ever come back." Eventually - my fitrep from the ship was expunged and I was transferred to another ship. As a final piece of icing on the proverbial cake, my first CO contacted the CO of the new a ship I reported to and told him what a useless individual I was. - That was just my first year of experience with the Surface Navy. in my humble opinion - the best thing to do is to flee away from the Surface Line Community at Warp Speed. You might be tempted to say, that this was just one CO - his actions aren't Representative of the SWO Community as a whole. Sad to say - yes they Were.!
All SWO's seem to suffer from Airedale Envy. The aviation community is the most professional and squared away group within the US Navy. I was a SNFO in the Navy. Four months into the pipeline, I got the dreaded NAMI Whammy due to sinus problems. I asked first to be released from active duty, or to be transferred to General Aviation Duty. But instead - I was selected to attend Surface Warfare Officers School. I have never attended a more poorly run, unprofessional training program in all of my time in the Navy. When the instructors discovered I was an Aviation attrite, they referred to me as a ..."piece of f***king Airedale garbage." I was informed I should feel "privileged" because the SWO Community was willing to accept me. When I told them that I was "drafted", and was selected to attend SWOS, despite my desire to resign my commission, they didn't have a while lot to say, except to grumble a lot. The courses basically duplicated what I learned in NROTC - without cracking a book I had a 3.96 GPA. They were all a waste of time. When I reported to my first ship, I knew right away I was screwed. I was stationed aboard a MSO - Ocean going Minesweeper. The CO learned I was an aviation attrite - and things went downhill in a hurry. Besides having a pathological hatred for all things aviation, he also hated ROTC students. Finally , making things even worse, he suffered from Short Man's disease - he was 5'8" - I am 6'5".
To give you an idea of just how unprofessional this individual (the Minesweeper CO) was, consider this little episode. I was commissioned a reservist because the Senate wasn't in session when I graduated. Naval Recruiting Command sent my Regular Commission to the ship. Instead of delivering it to me as required by Navy Regs, he sat on it. He then did a SWO letter of non-attainment on me - and tried to have me kicked out of the Navy - claiming I had declined to accept my regular commission. I was on the ship for seven months before he kicked me off. During that time, there were 35 conversations in the Wardroom centering around how useless Aviators were, and how they didn't understand responsibility, or the meaning of professionalism. I asked the Captain and my fellow officers, how the Skipper of a Carrier would feel about such remarks. Their replies..." They get paid to much - they have plenty of officers running around to do their job for them..." So anyway - he kicks me off of the ship - without orders - on a Friday Afternoon. I knew exactly what he had in mind - so I reported to the CINCLANT duty officer (CINCLANT being the SOPA - Senior Officer Present Ashore) and explained the situation to him. I informed him that on Monday, when the ship got underway - I would be reported as missing movement. I wanted to head off any problems with being reported UA (UN-Authorized Absence). The duty officer attempted to phone the CO of my ship to get a read on the situation - but the he (the CO) refused to talk to him. At least I had covered my six - because on the following Monday I was marked UA and reported as missing movement. Eventually, I was assigned to Little Creek Amphib Base. Then there was a change of command on-board my ship. The New Commanding Officer summoned me to report to him - and proceeded to tear me apart. The MSO was a reserve ship, and I was still being carried as part of the crew. He blamed me for being even more short handed than usual and asked why did I allow myself to be kicked off of the ship - and why the hell did they send us another Airedale Waste Product. He then told me to ..."get the f**k off of my ship and don't ever come back." Eventually - my fitrep from the ship was expunged and I was transferred to another ship. As a final piece of icing on the proverbial cake, my first CO contacted the CO of the new a ship I reported to and told him what a useless individual I was. - That was just my first year of experience with the Surface Navy. in my humble opinion - the best thing to do is to flee away from the Surface Line Community at Warp Speed. You might be tempted to say, that this was just one CO - his actions aren't Representative of the SWO Community as a whole. Sad to say - yes they Were.
!
When I reported to my first ship, I knew right away I was screwed. I was stationed aboard a MSO - Ocean going Minesweeper. The CO learned I was an aviation attrite - and things went downhill in a hurry. Besides having a pathological hatred for all things aviation, he also hated ROTC students. Finally , making things even worse, he suffered from Short Man's disease - he was 5'8" - I am 6'5".
To give you an idea of just how unprofessional this individual (the Minesweeper CO) was, consider this little episode. I was commissioned a reservist because the Senate wasn't in session when I graduated. Naval Recruiting Command sent my Regular Commission to the ship. Instead of delivering it to me as required by Navy Regs, he sat on it. He then did a SWO letter of non-attainment on me - and tried to have me kicked out of the Navy - claiming I had declined to accept my regular commission. I was on the ship for seven months before he kicked me off. During that time, there were 35 conversations in the Wardroom centering around how useless Aviators were, and how they didn't understand responsibility, or the meaning of professionalism. I asked the Captain and my fellow officers, how the Skipper of a Carrier would feel about such remarks. Their replies..." They get paid to much - they have plenty of officers running around to do their job for them..." So anyway - he kicks me off of the ship - without orders - on a Friday Afternoon. I knew exactly what he had in mind - so I reported to the CINCLANT duty officer (CINCLANT being the SOPA - Senior Officer Present Ashore) and explained the situation to him. I informed him that on Monday, when the ship got underway - I would be reported as missing movement. I wanted to head off any problems with being reported UA (UN-Authorized Absence). The duty officer attempted to phone the CO of my ship to get a read on the situation - but the he (the CO) refused to talk to him. At least I had covered my six - because on the following Monday I was marked UA and reported as missing movement. Eventually, I was assigned to Little Creek Amphib Base. Then there was a change of command on-board my ship. The New Commanding Officer summoned me to report to him - and proceeded to tear me apart. The MSO was a reserve ship, and I was still being carried as part of the crew. He blamed me for being even more short handed than usual and asked why did I allow myself to be kicked off of the ship - and why the hell did they send us another Airedale Waste Product. He then told me to ..."get the f**k off of my ship and don't ever come back." Eventually - my fitrep from the ship was expunged and I was transferred to another ship. As a final piece of icing on the proverbial cake, my first CO contacted the CO of the new a ship I reported to and told him what a useless individual I was. - That was just my first year of experience with the Surface Navy. in my humble opinion - the best thing to do is to flee away from the Surface Line Community at Warp Speed. You might be tempted to say, that this was just one CO - his actions aren't Representative of the SWO Community as a whole. Sad to say - yes they Were.
Well, there are always at least two sides to every story. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
Brett
I have kept my typing down in this thread but now I must speak, after all, im sure all flight attrites have had the exact same story
In fact, when we found out that there were a few guys in the wardroom who had dropped out of flight training, we SWO's immediately pounced on them with our Rules of the Road books and beat them mercilessly. We then bound there hands with sounding tape and stuffed there mouths with used moboards before playing 'OSCAR' with them if you get what I'm saying. Of course we managed to do this while comparing our fitreps to one another and drinking each others blood.
Lord help you if you were even a mid who once even thought about aviation.
The SWO community is just as bad as everyone thinks it is. If you want to join, I suggest you wear a chastity belt and carry a .50 cal (no pun intended)at all times. You have been warned.
In fact, when we found out that there were a few guys in the wardroom who had dropped out of flight training, we SWO's immediately pounced on them with our Rules of the Road books and beat them mercilessly. We then bound there hands with sounding tape and stuffed there mouths with used moboards before playing 'OSCAR' with them if you get what I'm saying. Of course we managed to do this while comparing our fitreps to one another and drinking each others blood.
Lord help you if you were even a mid who once even thought about aviation.
The SWO community is just as bad as everyone thinks it is. If you want to join, I suggest you wear a chastity belt and carry a .50 cal (no pun intended)at all times. You have been warned.
My first reaction was, what's the other side of the story? as well. However comma I have seen and heard many amazing examples of SWO CO shenanigans, enough that if the 'real story' was exactly as 50cal described, it wouldn't surprise me a whole lot.
I can say that it's not unusual for "fallen angels" (flight attrites) to be treated with disdain and even open contempt...I've heard "Why do we have to pick up the Aviators' garbage?" more than once. One SWO O-5, a recent destroyer CO, told me "I got rid of those guys as fast as I could. My ship's not a make-work program for flight school failures."
Some other fun stories:
- Captain gets in a screaming match with the Panama Canal pilot during a lock transit. It's not unheard of for a harbor pilot to get kicked off a bridge, but the Canal guys know their shit, most of them are American and have been doing it for decades. In any case, this was an "umpire vs manager at home plate" spittle-flying screaming match. I personally witnessed this one, and the Captain started it.
- CO comes aboard at midnight on a Saturday in home port demanding to dispense of three pending mast cases immediately. Which means calling in the legal O, the sailors' CoC's, etc. No reason, nothing urgent, he just got a wild hair.
- CO takes a female Ensign to mast for going drinking with her division during a port call. He saw it as "undue familiarity". Whether you think that's kosher or not, taking an officer to mast probably isn't the best way to handle it. And no, there were no allegations that she did anything other than have beers with them.
- Captain cancels a j.g.'s PCS orders without telling him, because he wanted him to stay aboard for an upcoming INSURV. Guy in question doesn't find out until months later, when he calls Millington to find out why his orders haven't shown up in message traffic yet.
Just a sampling. Yes, there are assholes in every community, and I've worked for and known some real face-palm 'leaders' in Aviation as well.
johnritenour@co
Registered User
Message To Brett et Al.
Brett - I can understand your reluctance to believe everything that I wrote. It is hard for me to believe it myself - and I went through it. Of course it is impossible for me - or anyone else for that matter - to be 100% objective. All I can say is - I considered myself to be a pretty squared away individual. Although this is way of subject -of course - I did have some fun in the Navy as well. I was one of the last Mids to be interviewed by Admiral Hyman Rickover - that interview is an amazing story in and of itself. I will throw in a little teaser and say this - Coming out of the closet doesn't always refer to one proclaiming your "true" sexual identity. In my case - it was what I did after Rickover put me in one (the closet) in his office at Naval Reactors. When I was assigned to my second ship, as CDO, I received the most unique phone call in my life. One of the officers assigned to the Leaky Larry (USS Lawrence (DDG-4), whose first name was Brian, was attending Damage Control Assistant (DC) school at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. I took a phone call one Saturday Afternoon, from the Philadelphia Police department, informing me that during a high speed (in excess of 100 MPH) his car had wrapped itself around a utility pole, and caught fire. The Body was burned beyond recognition. So we started doing the routine things you do in these matters - arranging for a CACO (Casualty Assistance Control Officer) to call upon Brian's next of Kin - in this case - his parents - and tell them what happened. We started the JAGMAN investigation going, took up a collection for Brian, etc. Needless to say, it was a sad day onboard the ship as Brian was a popular officer. Well- the next day Sunday - I received a phone call from....Brian. He was skiing in the Poconos mountains, and someone had stolen his car. Well the first thing I had Brian do was contact his parents...Spent a lot of time straightening out that mess....And how many other folks can say they roomed (as in shared a stateroom) with a guy who got the electric chair... Yep - A SWO Lieutenant named Andrew (Andy) Chabrol(Interesting note: the spell checker suggested that I replace Chabrol with Char-Broil - which is ironic given the fact he was electrocuted) roomed with me for a short while onboard the USS Trenton (LPD-14). Here is Andrew's name on a "guest list" for the Commonwealth of Virginia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_executed_in_Virginia
Andrew is number 20 on the list. Some officers who knew him (but not me) were interviewed concerning their knowledge about him. His victim - Lisa Harrington - was a BM2 who spurned his advances - Andy had it in a bad way for her - and he & two accomplices murdered her - and then he raped her. The order of the story is right - I told the Commonwealth's Attorney ( The DA) I didn't want to know how they knew she was dead before that rape occurred - Y E C H
Brett - I can understand your reluctance to believe everything that I wrote. It is hard for me to believe it myself - and I went through it. Of course it is impossible for me - or anyone else for that matter - to be 100% objective. All I can say is - I considered myself to be a pretty squared away individual. Although this is way of subject -of course - I did have some fun in the Navy as well. I was one of the last Mids to be interviewed by Admiral Hyman Rickover - that interview is an amazing story in and of itself. I will throw in a little teaser and say this - Coming out of the closet doesn't always refer to one proclaiming your "true" sexual identity. In my case - it was what I did after Rickover put me in one (the closet) in his office at Naval Reactors. When I was assigned to my second ship, as CDO, I received the most unique phone call in my life. One of the officers assigned to the Leaky Larry (USS Lawrence (DDG-4), whose first name was Brian, was attending Damage Control Assistant (DC) school at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. I took a phone call one Saturday Afternoon, from the Philadelphia Police department, informing me that during a high speed (in excess of 100 MPH) his car had wrapped itself around a utility pole, and caught fire. The Body was burned beyond recognition. So we started doing the routine things you do in these matters - arranging for a CACO (Casualty Assistance Control Officer) to call upon Brian's next of Kin - in this case - his parents - and tell them what happened. We started the JAGMAN investigation going, took up a collection for Brian, etc. Needless to say, it was a sad day onboard the ship as Brian was a popular officer. Well- the next day Sunday - I received a phone call from....Brian. He was skiing in the Poconos mountains, and someone had stolen his car. Well the first thing I had Brian do was contact his parents...Spent a lot of time straightening out that mess....And how many other folks can say they roomed (as in shared a stateroom) with a guy who got the electric chair... Yep - A SWO Lieutenant named Andrew (Andy) Chabrol(Interesting note: the spell checker suggested that I replace Chabrol with Char-Broil - which is ironic given the fact he was electrocuted) roomed with me for a short while onboard the USS Trenton (LPD-14). Here is Andrew's name on a "guest list" for the Commonwealth of Virginia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_executed_in_Virginia
Andrew is number 20 on the list. Some officers who knew him (but not me) were interviewed concerning their knowledge about him. His victim - Lisa Harrington - was a BM2 who spurned his advances - Andy had it in a bad way for her - and he & two accomplices murdered her - and then he raped her. The order of the story is right - I told the Commonwealth's Attorney ( The DA) I didn't want to know how they knew she was dead before that rape occurred - Y E C H
How is any of that relevant to the professionalism, quality of life, leadership, etc. of the SWO community? An inadvertantly botched CACO job and deranged criminal in the ranks are hardly indicative of the entire community.
Damn, that almost made me sound like I was defending SWO-dom.
Damn, that almost made me sound like I was defending SWO-dom.
I don't think so, the spelling is too good for that.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
That would be one very long drunk post.