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Are stories of the SWO community valid?
- Thread starter jameskalder
- Start date
BigL17
Member
The article confirms your statement regarding long term solutions. It also appears that any changes Big Navy is making won’t be felt for many years to come.
I have seen on this forum alone a high proportion of applicants are getting pro-reced for programs they have selected. Do you think that is due to the under manning of the navy or the quality of the applicants on this fine site? Or maybe a bit of both?
I was recently pro-reced for SWO and read the extensive duties that JO’s must undertake: the countless watches, getting quals, etc. It appears that upon final selection one the first investments I must make is purchasing a good pair of foot insoles (suggestions are appreciated).
I can't speak intelligently to the manning of other communities. For SWOs, they're opening the floodgates in the hopes of making more senior officers somewhere down the line...we're currently undermanned in O5/6. It seems like the 'downsizing' is mostly in the enlisted ranks.
Don't worry too much about manning. You'll find the vast majority of sailors are willing to jump through hoops to get the job done.
Don't worry too much about manning. You'll find the vast majority of sailors are willing to jump through hoops to get the job done.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Clearly the proper solution to any manning problem is to accept less qualified applicants and then promote them on top of giving them higher bonuses rather than fixing why people are leaving in the first place.
EDIT: Heh, they interviewed a guy I went to OCS with. Small world.
Also, this: "“It’s huge,” said then-Vice Adm. Timothy LaFleur, who was commander of Naval Surface Forces, in 2003. “In the ships of the future, like [the littoral combat ship] and DD(X), we’re going to have optimally manned crews. When DD(X) and LCS arrive, we have to have that infrastructure in place.”
Seems a bit backwards to me. If I understand correctly, the new ships (that are still a long way off from being delivered) are being designed with systems that require less watchstander attention. If this is the case, trimming down the Navy and making one Sailor perform the job of two to "prepare" for a job that will ultimately actually require one doesn't make sense. Am I missing something?
EDIT: Heh, they interviewed a guy I went to OCS with. Small world.
Also, this: "“It’s huge,” said then-Vice Adm. Timothy LaFleur, who was commander of Naval Surface Forces, in 2003. “In the ships of the future, like [the littoral combat ship] and DD(X), we’re going to have optimally manned crews. When DD(X) and LCS arrive, we have to have that infrastructure in place.”
Seems a bit backwards to me. If I understand correctly, the new ships (that are still a long way off from being delivered) are being designed with systems that require less watchstander attention. If this is the case, trimming down the Navy and making one Sailor perform the job of two to "prepare" for a job that will ultimately actually require one doesn't make sense. Am I missing something?
Maybe I've been spending too much time hanging out in Safety/NATOPS but if you only would have said NATOPs, 3710, or Stan Notes I would have been certain an ASO was talking.
From the recent PERS-41 newsletter, FY10 accessions for SWOs are increasing in order to meet manning health for the RL and Staff Corps. The perceived O5/O6 shorfall is a also a product of increased demand for O5s and O6s on various Joint and Major Staffs.
Is there more of a demand for SWO senior officers than other line types at the joint and major staff level?
No - if you talk to the Community Managers, it's across the board. However, some communities do have more inventory of O-5s and O-6s compared to others. I've seen some briefs that show the various levels of inventory by community and planned officer levels. It's interesting.
The recent AFPAK Hands program is a great example. The Navy (and other services) have to provide personnel in a hurry. These billets are new requirements. However, we can't just sh*t out a new O-5. It takes 15 years to grow an O-5. Control grade inventory (O-4 to O-6) is a zero sum game. Increasing billet requirements results in more gaps.
As to the original title of this thead, I will offer a story, then let you all get back to SWO manning numbers, et al.
My only SWO experience came from a cross deck exchange thingy that my CO, at the time, thought would be useful. My CO and the CO of the Mobile Bay somehow knew each other and their JO's and ours would switch places for a couple of days. My couple of days were miserable.
Now, I started things off bad by my own ignorance of SWO life. Don't call the ship "a boat", don't call the CO "Skipper", and don't call the XO (even though he is an O-4) by his first name. My bad. I get it. Also, WTF is the deal with asking permission to eat? My buddy and I solved this by showing up first and leaving last. That way we didn't have to ask anybody. In fact, we had Ensigns (we were JGs) ask us to "join the mess". "Sure, knock yourself out," was our reply. They looked puzzled. They did have excellent food and dog on that Cruiser, I must admit.
What I noticed was that the unpinned SWO types lived life in total fear. I remember them playing XBOX with their SWO learning books in their laps, I thought this was odd. Then, I learned why they did it. As soon as a knock on the door came, they threw their controllers into the cabinet with the TV, shut the door to said cabinet and their heads went directly into their books. If one of their aviation roommates was there, he would just take the controller from them. This was in case the CO or a DH was knocking on the door. My thought at the time was, "I'll bet they are having a Halo tournament in our Ready Room right now and I'll bet that a DH is getting his ass kicked by the junior guy and I'm sure that junior guy is talking shit the whole time." But, these guys were telling me tale after tale that did nothing to change the sterotype of the miserable SWO.
That crew was united in only one thing...their hatred of the CO. That man was a fucking tyrant to hear them tell it. He would later be relieved of command for fucking one of his junior sailors. Oops.
I spent my one and only night in an enlisted rack that night and wanted to kill myself. I had so much more respect for my guys after that "sleeping" experience.
Only once in my life have I said, "I really wish I was on an Aircraft Carrier right now," and it was while I was on a Cruiser.
My only SWO experience came from a cross deck exchange thingy that my CO, at the time, thought would be useful. My CO and the CO of the Mobile Bay somehow knew each other and their JO's and ours would switch places for a couple of days. My couple of days were miserable.
Now, I started things off bad by my own ignorance of SWO life. Don't call the ship "a boat", don't call the CO "Skipper", and don't call the XO (even though he is an O-4) by his first name. My bad. I get it. Also, WTF is the deal with asking permission to eat? My buddy and I solved this by showing up first and leaving last. That way we didn't have to ask anybody. In fact, we had Ensigns (we were JGs) ask us to "join the mess". "Sure, knock yourself out," was our reply. They looked puzzled. They did have excellent food and dog on that Cruiser, I must admit.
What I noticed was that the unpinned SWO types lived life in total fear. I remember them playing XBOX with their SWO learning books in their laps, I thought this was odd. Then, I learned why they did it. As soon as a knock on the door came, they threw their controllers into the cabinet with the TV, shut the door to said cabinet and their heads went directly into their books. If one of their aviation roommates was there, he would just take the controller from them. This was in case the CO or a DH was knocking on the door. My thought at the time was, "I'll bet they are having a Halo tournament in our Ready Room right now and I'll bet that a DH is getting his ass kicked by the junior guy and I'm sure that junior guy is talking shit the whole time." But, these guys were telling me tale after tale that did nothing to change the sterotype of the miserable SWO.
That crew was united in only one thing...their hatred of the CO. That man was a fucking tyrant to hear them tell it. He would later be relieved of command for fucking one of his junior sailors. Oops.
I spent my one and only night in an enlisted rack that night and wanted to kill myself. I had so much more respect for my guys after that "sleeping" experience.
Only once in my life have I said, "I really wish I was on an Aircraft Carrier right now," and it was while I was on a Cruiser.
I think it started out as a courtesy, like a salute, it was supposed to be a positive thing and work both ways... like a salute. You figure out who the senior guy in the room (small wardroom) or at the table (big wardroom) and address him out of respect.
Or think of it like a military version of sitting down with a group of your friends, asking if a particular seat is taken, and naturally they welcome your company... duh.
'Course all too often it's screwed up like what you got to see, and people get the retarded notion that they have to ask permission to eat their own food.
Which is messed up--on the part of the Ensigns--and what a shame.
One of my former-SWO-turned-aviator friends explained it to us when we were busting his chops over breakfast one day.
^ Yep. It's just tradition I guess, though I can't imagine anyone getting too bent out of shape if a pilot forgot to ask. As far as calling it a boat, again, I can't imagine that actually bothering anyone.
As stated above, calling the XO by his first name....bad form.
As stated above, calling the XO by his first name....bad form.
Huh, everytime I've been on a Gator people have always asked to join the table. Even when it's a table of all aviators, the arriving aviator (usually a Marine) would ask to join the table. But Gators have only one wardroom, no dirty shirt.