Applying to the March 2013 Board

[Graham2017]

These are great points. Also, regardless of what you may hear on TV, etc, the economy is actually improving and hiring is up big at my university. Kids are getting decent corporate spots in the workforce at above O-1 pay grade levels, so I'm sure a lot of people simply submit an OCS app as a backup in case they can't find work or whatever. Clearly not the reason one should use to join the military, but I'm sure loads of people join for this very reason.

I'm facing a very similar set of circumstances to what afsf1 hinted at. It's not that OCS is a "second" option but merely an option next to graduate school. My undergrad studies were in architecture, and it is very well-known that completing the professional degree is no longer a guaranteed job. Fast forward to this past week, where I was accepted to a top-10 architecture graduate school (Washington University in St. Louis) in addition to getting pro-rec'ed for OCS (I am to swear-in one week from today). Compound this with a long-term girlfriend who isn't entirely keen on the military, and I now have a serious decision to make that spans well beyond patriotism, service, or any of that. It's 10 years of my life.. albeit doing something that I, myself, value as incredibly important and fulfilling but some of the most of the influential people surrounding me do not. I'm just trying to get across that there is much more to swearing in for a decade than "You got the spot you idiot, so many people would kill to be in your position right now!!!" I can tell you first-hand that the decision isn't always as obvious as it may appear from an external standpoint.

 

[Corsair2002]

Would just like to say congratulations to everyone who was selected for the SNA/NFO board. It is a tremendous accomplishment! Over long thought and a tough decision, I have came to the conclusion of not accepting my SNA offer. My heart has always been with the Coast Guard and I am waiting on my second go at OCS after a "perfect score" interview and complete overhauled package. It has been quite the run with the Navy application process and I will take away a lot from it. I guess tough life decisions come down to following your gut/heart and not looking back. I wish the best of luck to all future aviators and flight officers. Wear your wings with pride, honor and humility. Take care everyone!

Jackson

Best of luck to you!

 

[youngaviator]

Received FS letter for March 31st soooo excited

 

[Spekkio]

[quote="afsf1]As for reasons why you wouldn't take this job? (I am at a bit of a crossroads myself here, to be honest).
- I have been paid close to twice as much/hour at internships as I will be as an O-1.
- Lack of freedom, potentially dangerous work (I don't think I will ever be a family man....but that option would be basically closed for me if I go in).
- Long term commitment is scary. (I would reckon this is a big one amongst individuals who decline a spot)[/quote]
Point 1: looking at O-1 pay is short-sighted. For starters my O-1 pay with BAH was $35kish in South Carolina, plenty to live off of as a single guy as BAH was lower than the national average for the area. Plus you don't pay taxes on a good chunk of your pay. Oh and I got oral surgery without paying a dime. So you found an internship that will cost-adjust to your rent, pay you 2x O-1 pay and give full benefits? Where can I get one?

Married with kids would be harder for sure, but you get promoted in 2 years and again 2 years after that. My gross monthly pay is now over $8k, I only pay taxes on $5.5-6k of it, I still stay in the 15% tax bracket, and that's not with any nuke bonuses. I've worried about a lot of things since commissioning but not money.

As for point 2, it's a pain and takes a special woman to deal with it. For sure there are more good women that will want nothing to do with that lifestyle than there are who will. But when the right one comes along you do what you gotta do to make it work. The bigger pain is when you want to buy a house but can't because you move every 3 years or so, which would put you upside down on it if you did buy. That devalues the pay listed above quite a bit because you don't accumulate an asset - property - like most people do.

Point 3: It is a long commitment but if you're passionate about it then it's not as scary as it seems.

 

[VTFlyer]

Received FS letter for March 31st soooo excited

So I would assume mine would be coming soon too I hope!

 

[AirGuy]

I agree that more jobs are currently available but the starting salaries can be misleading. A newly commissioned O-1 stationed in Pensacola will get paid in the mid-40s if you include BAH and BAS. Most engineering jobs start out around 55k to 60k depending on the field but that rarely includes full benefits. Medical, dental, life, retirement, etc. is include in the base military pay which is a significant benefit plus you get discounts for taxes, auto insurance and house insurance. So in the end I personally believe you are equally paid when you start the military vs. a civilian job. Can't make that argument 10 years down the road because an engineers salary can jump up over 100k pretty quick. But I believe money isn't everything. If you truly enjoy your job, it can make up the difference of a lower paying salary as long as you can provide for yourself/family. I couldn't see myself working on a computer in an office everyday of the week. But then again I have always wanted to be a Naval officer and never really considered other job as an options because I knew what I wanted to do with my life. Like you said, several people I know are interested in the military because its the only thing available not because they really want to do it.

And the best / biggest thing, free education when you in and a GI bill when your out. I heard they will provide full tuition assistance while you are in and that this doesn't even subtract from you GI bill.

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

And the best / biggest thing, free education when you in and a GI bill when your out. I heard they will provide full tuition assistance while you are in and that this doesn't even subtract from you GI bill.

Well, they were....The Army and Marines cut theirs last week and the Air Force did yesterday. Currently, the Navy is the only one that still has it in tact. Thanks sequestration.

 

[Calculon]

And even the post 9/11 GI bill may not be around much longer

One constant fact: what you know and are comfortable with now may not be true or even exist in a few years

 

[roflsaurus]

And the best / biggest thing, free education when you in and a GI bill when your out. I heard they will provide full tuition assistance while you are in and that this doesn't even subtract from you GI bill.

I used tuition assistance as an enlisted guy to pay for about half of my degree. It was a pretty good deal. Unfortunately the Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force have all cut their tuition assistance programs since sequestration. I expect the navy to do something similar, soon. We still have the GI Bill, though, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Edit: Oops you guys beat me to it. I don't think the GI Bill is going anywhere, though. The way it's set up in the post 9/11 format may not be around forever, but some form of GI Bill will still be there.

 

[paddybh1583]

I'm facing a very similar set of circumstances to what afsf1 hinted at. It's not that OCS is a "second" option but merely an option next to graduate school. My undergrad studies were in architecture, and it is very well-known that completing the professional degree is no longer a guaranteed job. Fast forward to this past week, where I was accepted to a top-10 architecture graduate school (Washington University in St. Louis) in addition to getting pro-rec'ed for OCS (I am to swear-in one week from today). Compound this with a long-term girlfriend who isn't entirely keen on the military, and I now have a serious decision to make that spans well beyond patriotism, service, or any of that. It's 10 years of my life.. albeit doing something that I, myself, value as incredibly important and fulfilling but some of the most of the influential people surrounding me do not. I'm just trying to get across that there is much more to swearing in for a decade than "You got the spot you idiot, so many people would kill to be in your position right now!!!" I can tell you first-hand that the decision isn't always as obvious as it may appear from an external standpoint.

For what it's worth, I am currently in a long-term relationship and have dealt with the same issue. Two years ago I turned down my acceptance to the Marine PLC program as a SNA. At the time I thought it was the right thing to do. After some time I realized it was the biggest mistake I had made. Best of luck deciding what course you want to take. You will always have time for a post-Navy career whether it be in architecture or in another field.

 

[zeagle]

I'm facing a very similar set of circumstances to what afsf1 hinted at. It's not that OCS is a "second" option but merely an option next to graduate school. My undergrad studies were in architecture, and it is very well-known that completing the professional degree is no longer a guaranteed job. Fast forward to this past week, where I was accepted to a top-10 architecture graduate school (Washington University in St. Louis) in addition to getting pro-rec'ed for OCS (I am to swear-in one week from today). Compound this with a long-term girlfriend who isn't entirely keen on the military, and I now have a serious decision to make that spans well beyond patriotism, service, or any of that. It's 10 years of my life.. albeit doing something that I, myself, value as incredibly important and fulfilling but some of the most of the influential people surrounding me do not. I'm just trying to get across that there is much more to swearing in for a decade than "You got the spot you idiot, so many people would kill to be in your position right now!!!" I can tell you first-hand that the decision isn't always as obvious as it may appear from an external standpoint.

Just make sure its's what you want to do before you start signing away and come to OCS. I did 5 years so I can attest that it is not for everybody, not even close. I am single and love the Navy so it was a no brainer for where I want to be. But keep in mind, an SNA position is a 8 year enlistment, and you may have to stay in that whole 8 years if you realize the Navy is not for you. If you DOR from flight school realizing you don't like it, girlfriend problems, whatever, you may not simply get walking papers and you could be doing a lot of years as a SWO. Someone I know DOR'd from NFO school in 2005 (I think) and he just completed his enlistment as a SWO. There was no option for him to simply go back home after flight school. Just do what you think is right and the rest will fall in line. Good luck to you.

 

[PenguinGal]

To all those who are or have considered NOT accepting the pro rec due to long term relationships, that is in my humble opinion not a good reason to do so.

I'm a spouse. Admittedly, PenguinGuy is a SWO but that is irrelevant in this conversation. Any argument that your girlfriend/boyfriend or fiancé/fiancée can come up with as to why you should not follow your dream can be pretty easily refuted. Everyone is capable of being a successful milspouse if they are willing to work at it.

Someone not willing to work to help me accomplish my dreams and goals is not someone whom I would want to marry. I am always willing to help my husband work towards his goals and he towards mine. My limited experience with marriage tells me this reciprocity is what tends to keep relationships going...

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

 

[USAF_WX2USN]

To all those who are or have considered NOT accepting the pro rec due to long term relationships, that is in my humble opinion not a good reason to do so.

I'm a spouse. Admittedly, PenguinGuy is a SWO but that is irrelevant in this conversation. Any argument that your girlfriend/boyfriend or fiancé/fiancée can come up with as to why you should not follow your dream can be pretty easily refuted. Everyone is capable of being a successful milspouse if they are willing to work at it.

Someone not willing to work to help me accomplish my dreams and goals is not someone whom I would want to marry. I am always willing to help my husband work towards his goals and he towards mine. My limited experience with marriage tells me this reciprocity is what tends to keep relationships going...

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

I agree with this times a million.

/been married 8 of the 9 yrs I've been in the military

 

[AirGuy]

I hope the Navy doesn't do it. That would suck. The more educated our service member, the better. . .

Isin't the GI BILL run by the VA? If they took out the GI Bill, I think the military would see a considerable decline in recruits.

 

[Spekkio]

And the best / biggest thing, free education when you in and a GI bill when your out. I heard they will provide full tuition assistance while you are in and that this doesn't even subtract from you GI bill.

As an officer already holding a college degree, the GI bill probably isn't going to be your cup of tea. The best thing you could do is pass it down to a family member.

You should also look closer into the benefits. The GI bill will provide a free education if you attend a public university in-state. Otherwise, it's capped at $18k for the academic year. Also, your BAH goes down to E-5 with dependents. That helps for sure, but it's probably not going to be free for graduate school.

As for cutting tuition assistance, I have heard from multiple sources that it's not widely used by operational units anyway. Even online distance learning programs have certain times where you are required to be on the web to "attend" lectures and whatnot. Now picture that you are over 8 hours off from the university's local time and they want you online at what is 0200 your time, or you have military duties to perform during that scheduled period, or you go on a mission, or whatever. Or maybe the member wants to do a technical degree but can't do the labs, so he just holds off to use the GI bill. It sucks they are cutting it for those who have been able to use it successfully, but if those accounts of the numbers are true I understand the reasoning and it's more alarming as a news headline than anything else.

Those who attempt PACE courses in the sub force have a very high rate of not finishing, with the XO doing a lot of explaining on why the member shouldn't have to pay it back.