Another helo vs the world thread (moved from helmets)

[RotorHead04]

Don't read anything snarky into this - it's a legit question: Who's going to train you guys to employ at a proficiency level high enough to convince CAGs?

Convince them of what? That we can hit a small boat or employ it in CAS? No one is worried about the latter, and the former is why we are getting it in the first place. VX-1 is currently doing the testing and developing the TTP. Lots of consultation with HMLA regarding tactics and best practices. Due to the LRIP nature of the program, the teachers (read WS folk) are involved at all levels and are directly channeling the info/experience they are gaining directly to the squadrons that are going to deploy with it. You can appreciate the challenges given the summer/fall timeline I'm sure.

Not really sure how many folks within a given squadron are going to get trained prior to this round of deployments -- haven't seen that level of detail in the planning. Lot's of baptism by fire will be taking place in the near future methinks!

 

[insanebikerboy]

Convince them of what? That we can hit a small boat or employ it in CAS? No one is worried about the latter, and the former is why we are getting it in the first place. VX-1 is currently doing the testing and developing the TTP. Lots of consultation with HMLA regarding tactics and best practices. Due to the LRIP nature of the program, the teachers (read WS folk) are involved at all levels and are directly channeling the info/experience they are gaining directly to the squadrons that are going to deploy with it. You can appreciate the challenges given the summer/fall timeline I'm sure.

Not really sure how many folks within a given squadron are going to get trained prior to this round of deployments -- haven't seen that level of detail in the planning. Lot's of baptism by fire will be taking place in the near future methinks!

I think it's nice to have the weapon but short of getting tens of thousands of rounds to shoot through it per pilot, I highly doubt the CAG would seriously consider employing it. It's the same reason that you don't see helos booming around with Hellfire all the time.

 

[FLYMARINES]

Don't read anything snarky into this - it's a legit question: Who's going to train you guys to employ at a proficiency level high enough to convince CAGs?

A legit question. Also not intending to be snarky: are y'all going to be full-time Gunslingers or just part-time? I'm assuming the latter. Safe assumption?

 

[FLYMARINES]

Above my pay grade. I would guess part time is a safe assumption (just like everything else we do), but then again, HSM is doing all of the ASW now, so that does free up some training cycles for HSC CVW to become better shooters. I know there is still a big discussion about NCEA -- the outcome of that should give you a good idea about how serious Big Navy is about us being gunslingers.

Interesting. Though unless you're going to be full-time, I would scratch unguided rockets as a desired "item."

 

[RotorHead04]

Interesting. Though unless you're going to be full-time, I would scratch unguided rockets as a desired "item."

Low cost guided rockets is the ultimate goal for the program, M197 and Hydras are the stop gap in the interim since they are already in the inventory. There was a discussion about APKWS a few weeks back, and that is one of the option being considered. The other is LOGIR/MEDUSA. Both are years off for -60S.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Convince them of what?

Convince them that is something their S guys can do often enough to be good enough to plan to. I was on the CAG staff for the first airwing to deploy with R and S - there's A LOT CAGs don't (didn't) know/understand and that tended to limit how much of it the respective squadrons could do. Fair - not fair? Part of being in an airwing I suppose. EA-18G guys are experiencing similar conversations with their CAG's WRT AMRAAM.

 

[robav8r]

I highly doubt the CAG would seriously consider employing it.

Is this the same weapon system that employs two 20mm pods on each of the pylons? Saw this system the other day, very impressive. Have heard the "requirement" is driving (accelerating) DT/OT and is, will be, a capability above the CAG level.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Is this the same weapon system that employs two 20mm pods on each of the pylons? Saw this system the other day, very impressive. Have heard the "requirement" is driving (accelerating) DT/OT and is, will be, a capability above the CAG level.

What does "a capability above the CAG level" mean?

Are Navy -60s a theatre asset?

 

[robav8r]

Just that having the capability in theater is being driven above the CSG leadership level, that's all . . . .

 

[FLYMARINES]

Low cost guided rockets is the ultimate goal for the program, M197 and Hydras are the stop gap in the interim since they are already in the inventory. There was a discussion about APKWS a few weeks back, and that is one of the option being considered. The other is LOGIR/MEDUSA. Both are years off for -60S.

Low cost is nice, but unless you're going to be shooting unguided rockets frequently, don't expect to be able to hit much, especially a moving boat. Like you said, APKWS would seem to be a better goal.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Just that having the capability in theater is being driven above the CSG leadership level, that's all . . . .

Isn't it already there with Cobras, Hueys, and all manner of army choppers?

 

[lowflier03]

In theater meaning already onboard the big grey boat when it's underway in some nameless body of water in close proximity to some nameless country that wants to send a large group of small boats after us.

 

[robav8r]

Thank you . . . (and . . . CSG, not ESG).

 

[RotorHead04]

Isn't it already there with Cobras, Hueys, and all manner of army choppers?

The ultimate goal is organic ship defense, regardless of who else may be embarked.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Low cost is nice, but unless you're going to be shooting unguided rockets frequently, don't expect to be able to hit much, especially a moving boat.

This. In my civilian job, I'm a JTAC(I). I can't tell you how many times the first rocket off the Huey/Cobra is not on target (and it's a STATIC target to boot). And those guys have the NCEA to shoot them a lot.