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Alright. . . I'll bite: Pilots of Asian Descent? How prevalent are they? (in VFA esp.)

K

KingTheodorious

Member
Greetings, civ here and like most civs, I'm putting the cart before the horse in asking this. . . .but it is something to consider as I pursue. Mainly since a large part of my reasons to join is that I am under the belief that USN/US MIL are some of the last meritocratic places around. I'm looking for ANYBODY'S and ALL perspectives here on the following:

I work corporate in nyc and yeah - it's def not a meritocracy. For those unfamiliar, there are lots of Asians at the junior level and when they get to these companies they work their tails off. . but they're often passed up for promotions, despite doing everything right and turning in good work. In other words, work performance is definitely not correlated to your success.

I get work politics definitely don't stop in the military, but I'm under the impression that the meritocracy, no matter your color, is way better than the civilian world. Is this truly the case? If I joined, can I expect that within reason, if I am a good officer and aviator, that effort would be recognized? Do people who do good work and are good officers/aviators, generally set themselves up for good careers?

Also while my post is about it, I'd like to clarify I'm not only eyeing Golden Path, individual success, etc. . . I want to join primarily out of a sense to serve and to lead sailors. But no harm in looking out for your career while you're at it, right?

I'm asking this from a numbers perspective, because I just don't see many Asian SNA/Aviators. Obviously, there's MANY reasons why this could be the case (timing, preference of Asians for other careers, preference of Asians in military for less deployed careers, etc), but when all those variables are eliminated, if I intend to work hard and be a good officer, is there anything stopping me from earning my wings?

Oddly specific post, and def putting the cart before the horse but yeah. . . just curious. If it turns out there aren't many, still plan on rocking that ASTB so I can join a kick-ass community and serve with my future brothers and sisters, no matter the color. Thanks!

Plan on commissioning 2025, looking forward to the day I can come back to this site and leave help for those who come after me, whether White, Black, green, or red!

Korean descent, born and raised in nyc metro, for any future Asian Aviators out there.
 
FinkUFreaky

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
White guy here, for what that’s worth. I’d say overall your impression is pretty spot on. I’ve seen lots of people do lots of stupid stuff, but the color of your skin or ethnicity don’t determine your success. Obviously expect some lame callsign suggestions, but that’s true of any ethnicity.

Aviation career doesn’t really get political until well after your initial stay or go decision (O5/6?). That said you are building relationships from day one; I didn’t realize as a nugget in flight school how many people you’ll continue to run into down the road. It’s a large community but in some ways it’s kinda tight-knit, especially the longer you stay in. For example, a DH you work under as a JO may become a CO that may or may not want you as a DH based on that experience. That’s one micro-example, but my point is that you are making impressions even as a flight student, before you have any real responsibility.
 
FinkUFreaky

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
To add though, let’s call the military a meritocratic bureaucracy. You might be the hottest shit on the planet and you’ll still get a P (promotable) on your first evaluation (FITREP). You’ll still wait two years to put on JG, two more for LT, etc. Definitely not a pure meritocracy.
 
JTS11

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Nobody really gives a shit about your racial/ethnic background. I've flown with great/bad folks of all backgrounds and (pronouns?)...That sounds a little too woke, sorry.


Even the Bad News Bears found their way to acceptance...Amanda was a bad ass.🤟
 
K

KingTheodorious

Member
FinkUFreaky said:
White guy here, for what that’s worth. I’d say overall your impression is pretty spot on. I’ve seen lots of people do lots of stupid stuff, but the color of your skin or ethnicity don’t determine your success. Obviously expect some lame callsign suggestions, but that’s true of any ethnicity.

Aviation career doesn’t really get political until well after your initial stay or go decision (O5/6?). That said you are building relationships from day one; I didn’t realize as a nugget in flight school how many people you’ll continue to run into down the road. It’s a large community but in some ways it’s kinda tight-knit, especially the longer you stay in. For example, a DH you work under as a JO may become a CO that may or may not want you as a DH based on that experience. That’s one micro-example, but my point is that you are making impressions even as a flight student, before you have any real responsibility.
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Love to hear it and thanks for providing that flight school nugget, definitely will be something I'm on the lookout for if I get to make it down there,
 
K

KingTheodorious

Member
JTS11 said:
Nobody really gives a shit about your racial/ethnic background. I've flown with great/bad folks of all backgrounds and (pronouns?)...That sounds a little too woke, sorry.


Even the Bad News Bears found their way to acceptance...Amanda was a bad ass.🤟
Click to expand...
This is exactly the type of society I hope for it to be. . . new york is like this in a good amount of circles
 
FormerRecruitingGuru

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
KingTheodorious said:
Greetings, civ here and like most civs, I'm putting the cart before the horse in asking this. . . .but it is something to consider as I pursue. Mainly since a large part of my reasons to join is that I am under the belief that USN/US MIL are some of the last meritocratic places around. I'm looking for ANYBODY'S and ALL perspectives here on the following:

I work corporate in nyc and yeah - it's def not a meritocracy. For those unfamiliar, there are lots of Asians at the junior level and when they get to these companies they work their tails off. . but they're often passed up for promotions, despite doing everything right and turning in good work. In other words, work performance is definitely not correlated to your success.

I get work politics definitely don't stop in the military, but I'm under the impression that the meritocracy, no matter your color, is way better than the civilian world. Is this truly the case? If I joined, can I expect that within reason, if I am a good officer and aviator, that effort would be recognized? Do people who do good work and are good officers/aviators, generally set themselves up for good careers?

Also while my post is about it, I'd like to clarify I'm not only eyeing Golden Path, individual success, etc. . . I want to join primarily out of a sense to serve and to lead sailors. But no harm in looking out for your career while you're at it, right?

I'm asking this from a numbers perspective, because I just don't see many Asian SNA/Aviators. Obviously, there's MANY reasons why this could be the case (timing, preference of Asians for other careers, preference of Asians in military for less deployed careers, etc), but when all those variables are eliminated, if I intend to work hard and be a good officer, is there anything stopping me from earning my wings?

Oddly specific post, and def putting the cart before the horse but yeah. . . just curious. If it turns out there aren't many, still plan on rocking that ASTB so I can join a kick-ass community and serve with my future brothers and sisters, no matter the color. Thanks!

Plan on commissioning 2025, looking forward to the day I can come back to this site and leave help for those who come after me, whether White, Black, green, or red!

Korean descent, born and raised in nyc metro, for any future Asian Aviators out there.
Click to expand...

Search better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim.

Echo the responses above. In addition, the "new guy/gal" posts are discouraged and there's a ton of information about naval aviation at your disposal. Similar questions and whatnot suggest you use the search function. Good luck in the application process!
 
K

KingTheodorious

Member
FormerRecruitingGuru said:
Search better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim.

Echo the responses above. In addition, the "new guy/gal" posts are discouraged and there's a ton of information about naval aviation at your disposal. Similar questions and whatnot suggest you use the search function. Good luck in the application process!
Click to expand...
For sure, sorry for the new guy post, but I had actually searched the site for a couple of days and didn't seem to find anything regarding Asians specifically. So I thought I would make a new post about it

Site is an absolute gold mine for aviation in general though, and I hope to provide my 2 cents when/if I get my wings

Yeah that dude is awesome. However, generally I was under the impression that he is quite the exception, and wanted to gauge life in the community for "regular" dudes
 
K

KingTheodorious

Member
squorch2 said:
to answer your question, diversity is worse in naval aviation than with URL officers, which is worse than overall USN, which is slightly worse than the armed forces as a whole.

don't take my word for it though - check out pages 15 and 16 of the Task Force One Navy report: https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jan/26/2002570959/-1/-1/1/TASK FORCE ONE NAVY FINAL REPORT.PDF
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would you say this is because of the lack of POC entering USN in the first place? My post was basically a long way of asking "no one is going to be favored just because they're white, black, whatever", and to get a sense that yes, generally speaking, the better work you do, the better you fare, no matter your background.

Granted, commenters above have mainly answered this.
 
JTS11

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
KingTheodorious said:
would you say this is because of the lack of POC entering USN in the first place? My post was basically a long way of asking "no one is going to be favored just because they're white, black, whatever", and to get a sense that yes, generally speaking, the better work you do, the better you fare, no matter your background.

Granted, commenters above have mainly answered this.
Click to expand...
Navy and Marine Corps aviation is dominated by white males...it's a historical/cultural thing mostly. Like I said above, I never really encountered any explicit/implicit race bullshit. Not saying it doesn't exist, along with sexual discrimination. Just never really saw any of that in the ready rooms I was in. In my experience, you were judged on each pillar of the 3-legged stool(stick skills, ground job, bar act)
 
squorch2

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
KingTheodorious said:
would you say this is because of the lack of POC entering USN in the first place? My post was basically a long way of asking "no one is going to be favored just because they're white, black, whatever", and to get a sense that yes, generally speaking, the better work you do, the better you fare, no matter your background.

Granted, commenters above have mainly answered this.
Click to expand...
that's part of it - as the report states:
Naval Aviation’s underrepresentation of racial diversity begins at accessions with Aviation diversity comprising 16 percent of the O-1 paygrade compared to 22 percent of all URL O-1. Retention is an issue for Hispanics, Asians and females throughout their career as demonstrated in the table below showing a progressive drop in percentage of officers at higher ranks.
Click to expand...
 
mmx1

mmx1

Woof!
pilot
Contributor
Meritocratic is a bit of a model minority lens to look at it. You shouldn’t get promoted because you’re good at your current job. You should get promoted because you’re good at /shows promise in the next one.

There’s some correlation between the two, but it does break down, especially crossing into management. And in the absence of good criteria, ducks pick ducks, in the military or finance.

The military is overall a really good vehicle for people from vastly different backgrounds to get out of the bubbles they grew up in. The officer class, less so. As the numbers back up, it has an accession bias…. just like the corporate world. That’s something you’ll have to navigate regardless.
 
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