NEWS Air Force leadership talks frankly about pilot retention

[Recovering LSO]

Are the "flying/developing/learning/teaching" billets in aviation looked at differently than other "instructor duty" billets at the statutory boards? As an analogue, I've never heard someone say that a billet at NPTU as shift eng or a tactics instructor at sub school would play better for O-4 than other shore duty options within our community.

I was describing some of the value of traditional production tours and why @azguy's singular focus on "sea" time doesn't work in aviation.

 

[SynixMan]

For the folks with longer time in than me, has there ever been a push to move the ADHSB to before the O4 board? Or is that a solution in search of a problem?

 

[Flash]

I am surprised no one has mentioned one of the more important measures the USAF has taken to address their pilot shortage.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Huh? There is no board that does this. As I'm sure you're aware, there is a statutory board where URL LTs from multiple communities are selected for O-4 from the same pool, and there are community administrative boards that select officers from within specific communities for career milestones.

The SWO (and sub) communities conduct their DH screening at the tail end of a JOs initial sea duty because it was advantageous to do so. These communities can also allow said officers to do NOB post DIVO shore duties because the timing still affords them the ability to get two years into an at-sea DH tour as a LT and earn competitive paper for LCDR screening. While the aviation community doesn't have that particular luxury due to initial schooling, azguy's broader question is: what is the aviation community attempting to change within the administrative process to make officers and the community as a whole better set up for success?

Are the "flying/developing/learning/teaching" billets in aviation looked at differently than other "instructor duty" billets at the statutory boards? As an analogue, I've never heard someone say that a billet at NPTU as shift eng or a tactics instructor at sub school would play better for O-4 than other shore duty options within our community.

azguy was saying making SWO DH was more competitive than making aviation DH and I pointed out the error in his logic both numerically and logically speaking given all you have to accomplish in order to screen DH as an aviator.

 

[zippy]

That's a 2% spike in retention right there... another 8% if they get rid of that Fvcking glowbelt.

 

[azguy]

azguy was saying making SWO DH was more competitive than making aviation DH and I pointed out the error in his logic both numerically and logically speaking given all you have to accomplish in order to screen DH as an aviator.

False. You're putting words in my mouth.

Look at the brief I posted last week or so. Some 13XX DH jobs are at the "can you fog a mirror" level of selectiveness. Some are much more competitive, purely from a mathematical standpoint.

That's talking about DH screening numbers. You want to talk about the level of warfighter that's required in certain 13XX jobs versus the level that's required in a high end fight on a DDG? That's a totally different conversation.

 

[Recovering LSO]

False. You're putting words in my mouth.

Look at the brief I posted last week or so. Some 13XX DH jobs are at the "can you fog a mirror" level of selectiveness. Some are much more competitive, purely from a mathematical standpoint.

That's talking about DH screening numbers. You want to talk about the level of warfighter that's required in certain 13XX jobs versus the level that's required in a high end fight on a DDG? That's a totally different conversation.

Yeah, I'd have that conversation, because in most cases I'm betting money on the "fog a mirror" VFA/VAQ JO in the "high-end" fight over the 5 year SWO DH. Call me biased......

 

[azguy]

Yeah, I'd have that conversation, because in most cases I'm betting money on the "fog a mirror" VFA/VAQ JO in the "high-end" fight over the 5 year SWO DH. Call me biased......

Don't be a dick. Can your platform fight undersea, on the sea, in the air, in space, and 1,000+ miles inland simultaneously? Nope? OK... Call me biased...and informed..too...

 

[zippy]

You want to talk about the level of warfighter that's required in certain 13XX jobs versus the level that's required in a high end fight on a DDG? That's a totally different conversation.

Obviously pretty high based on the amount of Time CVN TAOs (13XXs) spend pulling their escorts heads out of their own asses on a regular basis .

But then again those guys don't usually make O-4, let alone DH, so jokes on them.

 

[azguy]

Obviously pretty high based on the amount of Time CVN TAOs (13XXs) spend pulling their escorts heads out of their own asses on a regular basis .

But then again those guys don't usually make O-4, let alone DH, so jokes on them.

No kidding... The average fleet OS1 could stand a solid TAO watch on a CVN.

 

[Flash]

Don't be a dick. Can your platform fight undersea, on the sea, in the air, in space, and 1,000+ miles inland simultaneously? Nope? OK... Call me biased...and informed..too...

No kidding... The average fleet OS1 could stand a solid TAO watch on a CVN.

All right, we aren't doing this. If you want to brag about how big your SWO pin is this ain't the site to do it.

 

[HAL Pilot]

All right, we aren't doing this. If you want to brag about how big your SWO pin is this ain't the site to do it.

You tell him! We're all about being social justice warriors, Trump bashing and cuddling snowflakes here.

 

[robav8r]

Don't be a dick. Can your platform fight undersea, on the sea, in the air, in space, and 1,000+ miles inland simultaneously? Nope? OK... Call me biased...and informed..too...

As a SWO, you can't pick your nose without the CO's blessing. And you have an ENTIRE watch team fighting the ship during a prosecution/engagement. 1310/1320's employ platforms far away from their CO adult supervision and fight through multi-axis/dimension scenarios. There is no way to compare the duties and responsibilities of a SWO versus that of an O3/4 1310/1320 - they're not even in the same universe.

 

[Flash]

You tell him! We're all about being social justice warriors, Trump bashing and cuddling snowflakes here.

Well, thank goodness for internet safe spaces then.

 

[azguy]

There is no way to compare the duties and responsibilities of a SWO versus that of an O3/4 1310/1320 - they're not even in the same universe.

Disagree.

I'll repeat myself... Can your platform fight and employ weapons from the seafloor to space? From blue water, to the littorals, to 1,000 miles inland?

Is your platform worth $2 Billion? With the associated number of weapons?

Yeah? No... It's OK, I still love you