ACLU vs. USNA

[jollygreen07]

I remember when they mandated that prayer be removed from our mess routine at The Citadel. It was just one more reason for us to cheer extra hard when we beat VMI that year.:icon_rage

Every once and ahwhile, though. Someone would begin to recite the cadet prayer during our "moment of silence" and it didn't take long for the entire corps to begin reciting it. That was awesome.

I guess it was bound to become an issue at USNA eventually. Actually, i'm a bit surprised it hasn't happened already.

 

[xj220]

If they do away with it, it's not going to change anything really. People will still be allowed to pray on their own before they eat and what not and things will continue on as usual. It's unfortunate that it's a longstanding tradition, but in the end people will forget and move on.

 

[Afterburner76]

Listen, out of 30 some odd candidates in my OCS class, I was the only Jew. I don't think the chaplain even checked, but whatever. Before we went into the chapel, I simply told my parents: "Hey, he's probably gonna throw some Jesus around, so just deal with it". He sure did, we didn't cry about it, and I got my commission and moved on. It really isn't a big deal.

By making a big deal out of it, I just be "That obnoxious Jew" that is so stereotypical. This country is Christian, whether we like to admit it or not. Sometimes, you just have to go with the flow. You can't call the JDL for every little thing.

I don't advocate "crying" about it, or making a big deal. People need to choose their battles, and I don't think ending prayer is one of them. I do, however, think Chaplains should take it upon themselves to know their congragation... and in cases like this, their congregation is multi(or even non) religious.

 

[Herc_Dude]

I dunno, I think we're a pretty advanced society (or at least getting there). The sooner we stop believing in supernatural ghosts, fairies, devils, and goblins, the better... (my opinion).

Thanks for reminding me to take part in my primitive act of praying to all the ghosts and fairies to keep the devils and goblins away ... I almost forgot to do that today...

 

[Scoob]

If you are so sensitive that you can't let some religious stuff just roll off your back, you have absolutely no business whatsoever in the United States Military. Military service is about putting the needs of the organization (and country) above your own - not crying to the ACLU because you were made to feel uncomfortable. It kills me how people cry shenanigans because they feel something is being forced upon them, then decide to fix it by forcing their own will upon everyone else. If you don't like it, fuckin live with it.

This is what happens when DIs are no longer allowed to beat the shit out of recruits.

(in case it needs to be pointed out at this point, I am not a religious guy and am not defending religion in this case, but rather indicating my disgust at the crybaby nature of some people.)

 

[Afterburner76]

Thanks for reminding me to take part in my primitive act of praying to all the ghosts and fairies to keep the devils and goblins away ... I almost forgot to do that today...

Obviously you don't see the correlation between those and believing in a long-robed bearded man who lives in the sky. But I digress....

 

[BACONATOR]

Obviously you don't see the correlation between those and believing in a long-robed bearded man who lives in the sky. But I digress....

So is this now going to be a religion thread? Which religion is right?

Ok. Then in that case: Anyone who believes in an anthropomorphic god is an idiot.

 

[E2Cougar]

Two things you shouldn't bring up in the wardroom - or with family - politics and religion...

 

[OUSOONER]

My dad is Muslim and my mom is Baptist....you go to their house, welcome to the jungle my friend Guns N Roses style...:banghead_

ESPECIALLY when it comes to debate over politics and religion, he's very laid back but still it's fun to get my dad heated over these issues along with my mom..i feel bad for her though i can just go home she still has to stay there

 

[IKE]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of Inidividual rights. I'm in the military to protect and defend those Consitutional principles, not the collectivist ideal of some ephemeral "greater good."

Every Chaplain-led prayer I've heard has been non-denominationally Christian, at best; most clearly lie in the Baptist-to-Catholic range. Praying at command events will always be something that alienates non-Christians, and sets up a means of them being identified, regardless of the "voluntary" nature of it. Thankfully, most of us are in the Navy, and don't have to put up with the AF evangelicals' shenanigans.

In case any of you other atheists/non-believers/non-judeo-christians are wondering... you can have the last sentence of the officer oath ("So help me god") removed from any paperwork you sign (per the Constitution Article VI):

...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Those of us who think religious practices of this sort are not harmless, are not "whiners." "Just deal with it" is a ridiculous way to live one's life.

 

[HH-60H]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of Inidividual rights.

Really? Then why was the Bill of Rights an afterthought?

 

[OUSOONER]

And they were going to crown George Washington king as well (which he refused)..to say it was "founded" on individual rights isn't accurate.

 

[ProwlerPilot]

Living in a free society requires that we all give and take a little. While I agree that Midshipmen should not be required to pray to one faith (which they aren't), I see no reason that 9, that's N-I-N-E people out of over 4,000 should dictate the practices of the Academy. You can't please all the people all the time. In the past 10 years, the Academy has bent over backwards to accomodate all religions. There is a beautiful new Jewish center, there are prayer rooms set up at the stadium for those required to pray during the day, etc. I don't see how we can't all get along and be tolerant of each other. Why am I intolerant because I enjoy the noon meal prayer, but you are not intolerant because you don't. What about my rights? And for that matter the rights of the other Midshipmen. This girl was not beaten, thrown out, or shunned for not praying. She graduated and is just like the rest of us.

And for those who are not of the religious type, just wait until 3/4 of a mile, blue water, tank on the ball, no moon, no horizon, pitching deck, rain, clara ship. Only God and the LSO can help you now!!!

Beat Army!


..... amen.

 

[AJB37]

And they were going to crown George Washington king as well (which he refused)..to say it was "founded" on individual rights isn't accurate.

Having a king, doesn't necessarily restrict individual rights. I mean back in the 13th century when England was an actual kingdom, Magna Carta limited the kings rights. Granted the right granted in Magna Carta were really only for the upper class, but it set precedent for the limiting of the rights of the monarch that likey would have been included in any US monarchy.

 

[Raptor2216]