The ACLU is at it again! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../06/25/AR2008062501549.html?hpid=sec-religion :icon_rage
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ACLU vs. USNA
- Thread starter MiG15
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abracadabra11
Member
As someone who didn't pray...this is bullshit.
You don't have to be religious to appreciate what's said. Nor is it a requirement to understand the tradition in which it is held.
You don't have to be religious to appreciate what's said. Nor is it a requirement to understand the tradition in which it is held.
People have been talking about this for years. I don't see why anyone should really care.
Honestly, because when someone stops caring, then people like the ACLU will get their way.
I'm surprised it took this long for it to happen. With the way things are going, it was only a matter of time before they targeted noon prayer. Honestly, I never participated and never felt pressured. I'm wondering if there's more to the story than being let on.
fusu
New Member
it should be mentioned that it is actually a few midshipmen who asked the ACLU to file suit based off of a similar situation at the VMI.
real people are behind this suit not just the ACLU (whatever you may think of that organization).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/u...p=1&adxnnlx=1214541565-oF/SaZ2TYFws+ZKmz4jpoA
real people are behind this suit not just the ACLU (whatever you may think of that organization).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/u...p=1&adxnnlx=1214541565-oF/SaZ2TYFws+ZKmz4jpoA
Can I sue the ACLU to get them to shutup? As someone who didn't pray at noon meal it never bother me that people prayed. I never felt compelled just because someone next to me was praying... Are we again going to the "if one person is offended we can't to it" approach?
Unless someone made comments to her then I can't see how she was pressured. What she's really saying is, "Everyone else was doing it, I felt that I had to." That's a perfect trait for JO.Anonymous Plantiff said:
As I am sure T. Jeremy Gunn really knows, rulings by a VA state court do not affect a Federal institution in MD.Lawyers said:
DangerousDan
I could tell you but I would have to kill you
From my recollections it would be very easy to skip the prayer, since people typically get backed up into Smoke hall while going down the stairs. Ditto on suing the ACLU, Id love to join you on that.
I think problems arise when individual chaplains bring their own religion into the group prayer scenario. I've never had a problem bowing my head (eyes open) in thought (not prayer) when the opening prayer or benediction is made at military events. Where I do mind is when the verbage is "Lord in heaven.... blah blah... in Jesus' name we pray...etc". I find this disrespectful to the group being asked to pray. Chaplains should have the SA to realize that a simple prayer such as "Let us bow our heads... blah blah blah... amen". No referral to a specific god or Jesus doesn't hurt people's own prayers in their own mind/heart. Referring to those specifics only alienates those with different beliefs. I think that in a military or govt setting, that is the most appropriate thing to do. But hey, it's my $.02
Wait until you're on a carrier and they do an evening prayer every night at 2200 on the 1MC and call for silence about the decks. Evening prayers were never secular that I heard.
Don't like it, keep doing whatever you were doing.
Why is that so hard?
However since USNA and USMA have now made their school songs gender neutral...I'd expect loss of command mandated prayer to soon follow.
Don't like it, keep doing whatever you were doing.
Why is that so hard?
However since USNA and USMA have now made their school songs gender neutral...I'd expect loss of command mandated prayer to soon follow.
I dunno, I think we're a pretty advanced society (or at least getting there). The sooner we stop believing in supernatural ghosts, fairies, devils, and goblins, the better... (my opinion).
That being said, if people want to do their prayer thing, let em... just make it secular. If you believe in Jesus, you don't necessarily need to hear the prayer "tailored" to you... just use his name in your own mind. Command Prayer is supposed to be about unit cohesion. How can cohesion exist with alienation?
Don't take this as a stand-up for the ACLU... they are an abomination of what once was a good idea.
That being said, if people want to do their prayer thing, let em... just make it secular. If you believe in Jesus, you don't necessarily need to hear the prayer "tailored" to you... just use his name in your own mind. Command Prayer is supposed to be about unit cohesion. How can cohesion exist with alienation?
Don't take this as a stand-up for the ACLU... they are an abomination of what once was a good idea.
Listen, out of 30 some odd candidates in my OCS class, I was the only Jew. I don't think the chaplain even checked, but whatever. Before we went into the chapel, I simply told my parents: "Hey, he's probably gonna throw some Jesus around, so just deal with it". He sure did, we didn't cry about it, and I got my commission and moved on. It really isn't a big deal.
By making a big deal out of it, I just be "That obnoxious Jew" that is so stereotypical. This country is Christian, whether we like to admit it or not. Sometimes, you just have to go with the flow. You can't call the JDL for every little thing.
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