Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects

[invertedflyer]

^^ I guess I have a bad habit of doing that. I'll read up on FAS or something, didn't mean to stir the OPSEC pool, my mistake.

Perhaps a closer review of the previous thread would give me some more info. I wasn't, however, asking for specific or sensitive materials, just general answers.

IE: was this the late 80s? y/n
Do the Europeans do EW stuff? y/n

I certainly didn't want to get into anything that would be classified as specific, but I understand the sensitivity of the matter and will do some independent research. thanks.

 

[Catmando]

...... Did the shift towards different tactics occur during the same time period (the late 80s)? Were the key factors technology, doctrine, safety or did it involve our increased ability in the EW arena. .....

Yes. All the above.

 

[fudog50]

There you have it,,,,,the tactics in black and white!!!!
nothing classified about the posts there is it?
jeez

 

[Single Seat]

Back on topic....

Beating up on those cute little Vipers.

 

[Schnugg]

There you have it,,,,,the tactics in black and white!!!!
nothing classified about the posts there is it?
jeez

WTF? What the heck are you posting about????

 

[raptor10]

If you want to see hud footage of vipers and mirages going at it - the greeks and the turks throw up tons of videos on youtube (with tons of political commentary)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GI0-zXHdtlE

 

[CenterMass]

If you want to see hud footage of vipers and mirages going at it - the greeks and the turks throw up tons of videos on youtube (with tons of political commentary)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GI0-zXHdtlE

Why don't they jink, just flying a long with the death dot on the spine of their aircraft?

 

[Single Seat]

Why don't they jink, just flying a long with the death dot on the spine of their aircraft?

Because they don't know anything about BFM. Other countries don't train to it as much as we do, nor understand a lot of the concepts.

I love how the one guy continues to fight with the Bingo going off.

 

[Brett327]

Why don't they jink, just flying a long with the death dot on the spine of their aircraft?

You don't "jink" in a turning fight.

Brett

 

[invertedflyer]

CenterMass, jinking is a defensive maneuver used to avoid triple-A or SAMs ... I think you're referring to BFM/ACM. I'm sure someone else coulda told you, just FYI.

back to the original questions. I think I was outside the realm of what should be discussed wrt OPSEC. IOW -- I need to read more and ask questions less

 

[Catmando]

-- I need to read more and ask questions less

Here's a start. Although a little dated, this article discusses some of what you originally asked regarding changes, and the evolution of air-to-air combat.

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml

 

[CenterMass]

I'm confused by the following instruction.

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/folder5/T45/P-1289.PDF Page 83 Guns Defense. And before, odly enough, Rate War Defense bottom of page 73 until page 74.

This could be talking about a high aspect shot, pulling for lead, but then it mentions checking the bandit's potential for overshoot both times which leads me to belive they are talking about a turning fight.

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[HeyJoe]

I'm confused by the following instruction.

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/folder5/T45/P-1289.PDF Page 83 Guns Defense. And before, odly enough, Rate War Defense bottom of page 73 until page 74.

This could be talking about a high aspect shot, pulling for lead, but then it mentions checking the bandit's potential for overshoot both times which leads me to belive they are talking about a turning fight.

Am I understanding this correctly?

They are talking about being defensive about someone trying to gun your brains....regardless of how it happened. A good guns D will force an overshoot and then "we" redefine the fight. What's with all the "we" stuff anyway?

 

[invertedflyer]

Fox 2, Fox 1, Fox 2.....splash two!

I always thought that the biggest selling points of the F/A-18 was multi-role capability, more advanced avionics, and less maitnenance man hours per flight hour. I heard a lecture once about how the USMC chose the F/A-18 over the F-14 in the early 80s, it made a lot of sense to me. Many saw Mark Fox's shoot-down of an Iraqi Mig and continuing on to put bombs on target as a validation of this idea. However, this is coming from someone that doesn't have the experience, so its just my opinion.

 

[2sr2worry]

I always thought that the biggest selling points of the F/A-18 was multi-role capability, more advanced avionics, and less maitnenance man hours per flight hour. I heard a lecture once about how the USMC chose the F/A-18 over the F-14 in the early 80s, it made a lot of sense to me. Many saw Mike Fox's shoot-down of an Iraqi Mig and continuing on to put bombs on target as a validation of this idea. However, this is coming from someone that doesn't have the experience, so its just my opinion.

That's Mark Fox...not Mike Fox.