MasterBates
Well-Known Member
WOW. Does the -53 not flare well at the bottom?
We come to 20' (SOP, NATOPS just says no touchdown) but 0 ground speed is the target.
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Touchdown(full) Autorotations
- Thread starter plc67
- Start date
WOW. Does the -53 not flare well at the bottom?
We come to 20' (SOP, NATOPS just says no touchdown) but 0 ground speed is the target.
We flare fine, but if we get too slow (a/s in the flare) on practice autos, we may not have enough power to arrest the rate of descent. Lots of weight and inertia falling out of the sky. Depends on the weight. Best weight to start practice autos is about 49-50k. Nr tends to build rapidly in the descent and flare, so lighter is better.
I'd always watch the -53Ds do their autos at K-Bay. Sometimes it was hard to tell whether they pissed away the auto or if they were just doing a normal recovery because of their higher altitude. The Ds seemed to come to a stop, though, just in a higher hover than we did (probably around 50 feet or so, based on my eyeball). I'm guessing their lighter weight probably helped them w/ that. They would do autos to a spot, though, which we didn't practice. Talk about preceision, trying to get a big pig like that stopped in one spot.
Not completely true. 2 of the last 3 autos that touched down that were mishaps resulted in FNAEBs. I've touched down and walked (well, flew) away w/ nothing more than a red face at how low I let Nr go. Not a fun feeling, but you gotta take a lap and try again and just make sure you learn from your mistake. But I get your point.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Gator, I was just talking about the last 3.5 years @ my squadron. One was found to have autoed at 18.5K, (SOP 18 MAX). Had some other stuff he had done, but that was the offense that brought on the FNAEB.
Other was just a crappy pilot.
The O4 was seeing how far a 2P that was up for HAC would let a bad auto go.
Other was just a crappy pilot.
The O4 was seeing how far a 2P that was up for HAC would let a bad auto go.
I know, I was just pointing out that touching down doesn't equal a green table. Out of curiosity, is the SOP 18 Max or "should be" 18 Max. Ours was "should be 18" but isn't a show stopper if it isn't. Certainly makes it more risky, though, obviously.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
18 is MAX per SOP. 17 Reccomended verbally, but unable to do with most Block 1's.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Gator, do you know where the term "Green Table" is from? I have been a witness at 3 FNAEBs and it's always been on whatever respective color Naugahide the squadron in question has on the wardroom table.
(Ours is Blue, 44 Orange, 46 Black, 48 Green, Etc)
(Ours is Blue, 44 Orange, 46 Black, 48 Green, Etc)
No, I think it's just an expression. The only actual green table I've ever seen was in ROTC for the performance review boards we had to do where the XO and a couple of advisors sit around and ask why the MIDN/OC/Marine has a 1.8 in basketweaving but can't seem to make it to study hours.
As for the 18K and Block 1s...we'd try and follow it as best we could. For 2 hour Fam flights, we'd only fill up w/ 3K and then do the autos last w/ 1K or less. Seemed to work 99% of the time.
The green table reference is more for FNAEB/mishap boards where the presiding officer has stars on his collars.
Brett
I think the table in Flight of the Intruder is green when they're getting FNAEB'd for the bombing run on Hanoi.
Its 18k max in the HSL East RAG as well. One of the calculations the IPs have us do on preflight is what our fuel load has to be before we can auto. The auto profile in the 60 is quite a change from the 57. The amount of nose up in the flare surprised me when I first did one.
Its 18k max in the HSL East RAG as well. One of the calculations the IPs have us do on preflight is what our fuel load has to be before we can auto. The auto profile in the 60 is quite a change from the 57. The amount of nose up in the flare surprised me when I first did one.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Dot the i !
Interesting. I wonder if that's because (in the past, anyway), the East coast has more Block 1s, so therefore averages more heavy birds. When I went through -41, the SOP was 17K, but we only had one Block 1, and I don't think we hung onto it while I was a stud there. Or maybe they just pushed it up there, as well. Any -41 guys here to chime in?
As for figuring out the auto weight in the fleet...same, same. I'd just right down the loaded, no fuel weight on my kneeboard...or more accurately, on my hand, and figure it out in the aircraft.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
On the subject of Autos, has anyone oversped the head doing a maintenence auto? I have never seen it, but I can imagine it has happened.
For the unwashed, a maintenance auto is done at min pitch, and checks the maximum RPM the rotor can generate in an auto. I have seen 120 three times, but the last 2% came on slow.
Normal check is 116% for a CoreB and 114% for a Block0 or 1-
For the unwashed, a maintenance auto is done at min pitch, and checks the maximum RPM the rotor can generate in an auto. I have seen 120 three times, but the last 2% came on slow.
Normal check is 116% for a CoreB and 114% for a Block0 or 1-
I don't know much about Helo's or autorotations ... except the TANG used to do autorotations in these all the way to the deck all the time @ NAS DALLAS on the west taxiways ... guts-balls, I thought....
.... but they got in the way of my taxi to the end of the runway ....
.... but they got in the way of my taxi to the end of the runway ....
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
My buddy was the FCP (I was his copilot) for a maintenance auto, and we oversped the head. Don't remember what it hit, but it was high. High enough that when we came back and told the tech rep, his look was something like this:
Worst part was, we did it twice. The first time we both said "That can't be right", so we climbed up and did it again. It turns out we oversped the design limit, and that the metal was stretching at the point we were at. Needless to say, the CO yanked my buddy and I off the flight schedule for a while...And, the recovery altitude for a Phrog is 25 feet in the fleet as well. The FRS is the model manager, so the Stan Man they produce is the same one you'll use in the fleet.
As for the reason for practicing autos (some may argue the neccessity of it, with multi engine aircraft, etc...) is still very valid. Some examples where it might be nice to know how to auto AHEAD of time: Dirty fuel and both engines flame out, SAFIRE that hits a fuel line and both engines flame out, Lube Pump Drive Shaft Failure with a catastropic failure of one engine that destroys itself and sends FOD into the other engine (a CAUTION in the Phrog NATOPS), etc... I'd rather have practiced it so it's muscle memory than blow it off and think it will never happen. Just remember, there are two types of pilots - One who walks out to his aircraft, knowing it's going to be his last flight. The other walks out to his aircraft, NOT knowing it's going to be his last flight. I'd prefer to be the former rather than the latter.