Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)

[phrogpilot73]

At least I was on base!

And, I didn't have to pee until about Fredricksburg - so I knew that if I stopped in public - I'd be in the land 'o a billion Marines...

 

[Uncle Fester]

Well, yeah. But if someone does give you crap about being in town in a bag, wouldn't it be easier to say, "Sorry, sir, but the high sump light was on and my choices were stop now, wet my pants, or relieve myself in public. I figured Option One brought the least discredit upon the Corps."

'Course, the response would probably be some deal about how you should have planned your fluid intake vs. time to target better.

I gotta agree with gator a little on this one. G-d bless the Marines, no one else like them and glad you're on our side, but some of the more senior folks do seem to regard the rules as a sort of I Ching. And if the rules don't make sense, or don't seem applicable, it's because you (the miscreant) must have fucked something up.

But what the fuck do I know? Nobody asked me anyway.

 

[Herc_Dude]

Your dedication to the Corps makes us proud sir ...

 

[a-6intruder]

Marine Corps' new cammie/flight suit rule is that you can not stop for anything. Drive through are OK, but only if you don't get out of the car. You can only exit the car for a bona fide emergency.

So, riddle me this, Batman. How come the 4-star USMC boss here @ JFCOM can give the keynote luncheon speech in Desert Digital Cammies at the Virginia Beach conference center (way off base) a few weeks ago, in front of several thousand civilians, but you aren't allowed to make stops off base in cammies to tend to a bold face emergency?

It is quite humorous at times, because I watch my immediate 1-star USMC boss go through several wardrobe changes each week trying to get in the right / same uniform for the occasion, depending on what / where the event is and who the senior Marine is.

As opposed to the Navy where I recently counted seven different uniforms in the meeting we were hosting - khaki bag, green bag, DCU, ACU, BDU, summer khaki, and one trop white (he was going to a Change of Command later)!

I suspect that if policy does get changed to where you can wear a clean bag out in town, w/ a prescribed patch configuration, that it will be exactly one day before some idiot blows it by looking like he just climbed out of the service bay at the Jiffey-Lube.

 

[A4sForever]

So, riddle me this, Batman. How come the 4-star USMC boss ........

The answer: RHIP.

Not to worry though, younger Bruddahs .... we couldn't wear our Zoom Bags anywhere off base in the 'ol days ...

Many, many times driving through the Main Gate in white T-shirt and "green NOMEX" trou w/ LOTs of zippers ...

It ebbs and flows ...

 

[The Cow]

we couldn't wear our Zoom Bags anywhere off base in the 'ol days ...

Not only that, we couldn't even wear our flight suits off of the airfield when we were on base at Camp Pendleton (1982-1985). The rule was, you couldn't wear a bag past the railroad tracks at the entrance to the air facility. The grunts hated the bags, and possibly the people in them.

 

[Blutonski816]

from the picture thread:

VFA-154 Black Knight

HJ Photos

I gotta ask the Rhino guys... I just noticed this and realized this was being done on other Supers....why is that last stretch on the rudder surfaces kept unpainted?

 

[asa66]

xmid, perhaps you should heed your own advice. OPNAVINST 3710.37A (I think B's on the street, but I couldn't find it online) lists standing height mins/maxs before it even gets into the antro measurements. LGPP's information provided was mostly correct in that you have to be between 62" and 77" (78" is for NFO). He also mentioned that there were Antro measurements in addition, and suggested the OP google it. So no, he was not incorrect - he merely pointed someone in the correct direction. Take a chill pill.

We come in all sizes. That's me, back row, far right.

 

[HuggyU2]

... he's also trying to get the FAA to ease up on the 1200'/250KIAS party line re: flybys.

As per FAR 91.119, "... over any open air assembly of persons...", it's 1000' above the hightest obstacle within a 2000' horizontal radius.
Speed would be 250 KIAS, unless your manuals prescribe higher. For example, 300 KIAS is listed in the T-38 flight manual, so that's what we use.
Now, anyone organizing a flyover should have an FAA waiver for faster and lower. Not hard to do. I've done it with only 10 days advance notice and a lot of "Pleases" on the phone with the FAA FSDO.

But, any flyover worth doing should have the waivers in place.

Now,... even with those waivers in place, the USAF makes it difficult to go lower and faster: we have to get further permission from our chain of command to go "lower and faster". Is that bureaucracy also found in Naval Aviation these days? I'm hoping you guys have an easier time getting it approved than we do.
Also, how many passes are you allowed to do?

 

[Harrier Dude]

As per FAR 91.119, "... over any open air assembly of persons...", it's 1000' above the hightest obstacle within a 2000' horizontal radius.
Speed would be 250 KIAS, unless your manuals prescribe higher. For example, 300 KIAS is listed in the T-38 flight manual, so that's what we use.
Now, anyone organizing a flyover should have an FAA waiver for faster and lower. Not hard to do. I've done it with only 10 days advance notice and a lot of "Pleases" on the phone with the FAA FSDO.

But, any flyover worth doing should have the waivers in place.

Now,... even with those waivers in place, the USAF makes it difficult to go lower and faster: we have to get further permission from our chain of command to go "lower and faster". Is that bureaucracy also found in Naval Aviation these days? I'm hoping you guys have an easier time getting it approved than we do.
Also, how many passes are you allowed to do?

I talked to the FAA regional pooh-bah before doing the one in Martinsville, and he thought it was kind of funny that I even asked for a waiver for speed. The only thing he cared about was altitude (NLT 1000' AGL).

His quote was "You're military. We don't care about your airspeed. Just keep it above 1000' AGL and you're good."

I was surprised. After all of the freaking out in advanced about being 251 kts under 10K'........I just assumed that they would care. YMMV.

CALL THE FAA AND ASK BEFORE YOU DO A FLYOVER!

BTW, the only group that seems to care about the number of passes seems to be the air force. We did 2 passes at Talledega (followed by a carrier break over the track to the runway behind the backstretch) and the USAF called our wing to complain. The Chief of Staff basically told them to get bent.

It's probably listed in a USN/USMC reg somewhere, but nobody seems to care much about it. As far as speed goes, at Martinsville we were 450ish. At Talledaga we were 530ish.

Nobody batted an eye.

 

[HuggyU2]

I talked to the FAA regional pooh-bah before doing the one in Martinsville, His quote was "You're military. We don't care about your airspeed. Just keep it above 1000' AGL and you're good."

Sweeeet! I've had to make "speed adjustments" to shack my timing before, and like you said, no one from the FAA every said a word. Even WRT the USAF, the only guys I've heard of getting bad face time were the ones that went LOW.
In the USAF, we can only make 1 pass (there are a few exceptions). I'm surprised/disappointed that someone would call and bitch about your pass. If they were real aviators, they would have spent their time working up a Staff Summary Sheet asking the USAF leadership to let us do it the same way. :icon_mi_6 (Now, I expect A4s to roll in and post that REAL aviators would just do it and tell the boss to pound sand).

 

[Harrier Dude]

One thing to keep in mind is that the flyovers that I've done have thus far been in "Podunk, USA", vice right over downtown New York City or something. The FAA might care a little more about those, but I don't know.

Also, while the USAF bitched about our "multiple passes", the guys that they had on the ground (who we didn't know would be there and didn't really participate.....not their fault) were very cool. They were some sort of a "USAF flyover detail" or something like that. They gave us coins for hitting the "Home of the brave" part of the National Anthem (I was -4 and take no credit for this, BTW).

I'd love to have that job! It might also be worth trying to contact them (no idea how) if you ever do a flyover. Coordination is crucial, and they probably have tons of gouge on that.

 

[A4sForever]

..... (Now, I expect A4s to roll in and post that REAL aviators would just do it and tell the boss to pound sand).

Naaaaaa .... you've gotta know your limitations, and one of them was NOT telling the "boss" to pound sand.

But remember, in the ol' days, some of the biggest hot dogs/cowboys WERE the "boss/heavies" who led from the front of the formation .... so following their lead and example we usually "just did it" and kept making low & fast fly-by passes until someone called "low fuel" ... then we'd go land.

 

[HeyJoe]

from the picture thread:

I gotta ask the Rhino guys... I just noticed this and realized this was being done on other Supers....why is that last stretch on the rudder surfaces kept unpainted?

Now that you mention it, that does seem to be an non painted area for some reason

HJ Photo

 

[bb1125]

^^Trim tabs maybe?