Point Paper/Letter Re: Aviation Greens.

[nittany03]

Petition? Sort of low level mutiny? Boss, collectively WE think ....:icon_rage:icon_rage

Let put it this way: On a Tin Can, Skipper declared no wash khakis in Wardroom for eve meal; knows will make all O's angry. As Weapons Officer, you write nice point paper to CO, pointing out how tough it is for engineering to comply, highlights factors CO may not have considered. CO accepts or declines but has high regard for Weapons for contributing.

Or: You circulate a petition, all O's sign. What reaction is the skipper likely to have?:icon_rage:icon_rage

And strongly suggest that you not stand in the shawdows of the AW Forum.

Noted for future reference. Haven't ever had to suggest anything to The Man, so I have no clue as to the proper protocol. Hence the word "might." I suppose what I was getting at is that a point paper from a group of people, properly submitted through channels with proper respect for the duly constituted authority of whoever is in charge, might have a more persuasive effect than a point paper from one person. Or am I showing my ignorance of protocol still?

 

[Pags]

I liked the idea of putting something in Proceedings...it is an open forum after all.

 

[SDNalgene]

Noted for future reference. Haven't ever had to suggest anything to The Man, so I have no clue as to the proper protocol. Hence the word "might." I suppose what I was getting at is that a point paper from a group of people, properly submitted through channels with proper respect for the duly constituted authority of whoever is in charge, might have a more persuasive effect than a point paper from one person. Or am I showing my ignorance of protocol still?

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I understand the idea of a petition conjures up images of fat women standing outside the grocery store asking you to sign a petition to tell the city council to pass a resolution that farting on Saturdays shall henceforth be illegal. Perhaps petition was the wrong word. Anyway, all I am suggesting is that we somehow show that there is a depth of support for this uniform and our traditions. If they say no they say no. I am not starting some low level mutiny, rather saying that a list of signatories to a well written respectful point paper will carry more weight. Of course this assumes that there will be many signatures, like a couple hundred at minimum.

 

[MasterBates]

What about a multi-pronged offensive?

Article/Letter to Proceedings. Perhaps signed off by a couple heavy hitters, or signed off as a collaborative effort of members of AirWarriors. (with Web-San's permission/blessing only)

Letters to Navy Times and other publications where it may be seen to a wider audience.

Petition to the powers that be.

The last one I am not sure how to go about. Who do we need permission from to start that? And how would we route it? Remember, even though I am a Winged LT, I am just a student in the TRACOM in the eyes of big Navy.

Perhaps there can be a discussion in Chat about how to approach this? I will be in Chat at 2000 Eastern tonight. If people come in to discuss this, I can make a special room to discuss the Saving the AWG project.

 

[SDNalgene]

And for the record, if this is considered a low level mutiny, I didn't start it; Masterbates did. I merely offered hypothetical suggestions that I never thought would be carried out and that is what I am sticking with at trial. Sorry dude, but I saw the bus coming and just thought I would throw you under.....

 

[The Chief]

... suggest anything to The Man, so I have no clue as to the proper protocol. ..

Point 1: Never ever suggest to a superior, always recommend. Suggest down the chain.

Point 2: Think common sense with a few rules. Always remember that your boss may not be smarter than you are but that he/she makes decisions with more information on the subject than you have. Ergo, your objective should be to provide information that they not have or have considered. Always be the solution rather than forwarding a problem up the chain. For example, your Div wants to hold a function off the ship and permission is needed. Never ever say " ... my men want to ..." as that simply takes you out of the chain. Rather say what you think (never what you feel) "" I recommend approval of xx function because ". I always included an approval/disapproval box to be checked.

Point 3: In any letter of point paper, frame the issue in the first sentence, use the last sentence to say what is desired. That middle area if for background.

Point 4: Never ever gang up on your boss.

//end threadjack- PM if follow-up.

 

[MasterBates]

And for the record, if this is considered a low level mutiny, I didn't start it; Masterbates did. I merely offered hypothetical suggestions that I never thought would be carried out and that is what I am sticking with at trial. Sorry dude, but I saw the bus coming and just thought I would throw you under.....

I sense P3's in this one's future.. :icon_smil

 

[SDNalgene]

Article/Letter to Proceedings. Perhaps signed off by a couple heavy hitters, or signed off as a collaborative effort of members of AirWarriors. (with Web-San's permission/blessing only)

I think the heavy hitters approach would be better. Regardless of our own obvious coolness, having this attached to a website won't help us in the least. I think we risk making the idea easier to dismiss because the cause will then be a web based grass roots effort, like Code Pink or Moveon.org or, okay, so that is a stretch. However, the point remains that a letter from CAPT so and so carries more weight than a letter from AviationNerds.com, which is how it will be taken.

 

[SDNalgene]

I sense P3's in this one's future.. :icon_smil

Now that's just plain mean.:icon_smil

 

[nittany03]

I think the heavy hitters approach would be better. Regardless of our own obvious coolness, having this attached to a website won't help us in the least. I think we risk making the idea easier to dismiss because the cause will then be a web based grass roots effort, like Code Pink or Moveon.org or, okay, so that is a stretch. However, the point remains that a letter from CAPT so and so carries more weight than a letter from AviationNerds.com, which is how it will be taken.

Exactly. When it all comes down to it, the powers that be will decide what will happen, and all others will salute, say "yes sir/ma'am," and carry on. Hopefully with none of the latter looking stupid/unprofessional. And the last thing Web-san or any of us needs is senior officers pissed at our little community. Trust me; they do lurk here.

 

[nittany03]

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I understand the idea of a petition conjures up images of fat women standing outside the grocery store asking you to sign a petition to tell the city council to pass a resolution that farting on Saturdays shall henceforth be illegal. Perhaps petition was the wrong word. Anyway, all I am suggesting is that we somehow show that there is a depth of support for this uniform and our traditions. If they say no they say no. I am not starting some low level mutiny, rather saying that a list of signatories to a well written respectful point paper will carry more weight. Of course this assumes that there will be many signatures, like a couple hundred at minimum.

That's more of what I was getting at. Pags brings up a good point also. This is what Proceedings is for.

 

[loadtoad]

Does anybody in here rub shoulders with any retired Admirals? Perhaps that is another way to go about it.

 

[Mumbles]

actually...my old man was classmates with a few. Admiral Keating was a swordsman in my parent's wedding. I'll see if my Dad can shoot him an email.

 

[statesman]

When the subject came up in the chat, which prompted the authoring of the letter, we had intended it for Proceedings. Something similar might be sent in a point paper format up the chain, but I view the letter which is currently being flushed out to be one that would be published in a public forum. One that would generate discussion throughout the community.

Even though AW seems to be a good sampling of the Aviation Community, it is not influential enough to generate buzz throughout the entire community. Proceedings, NavyTimes, or even some of the Aviation magazines (Naval Aviation, Approach etc.) would be a good place to start the discussion.

 

[The Chief]

The Hook - Tailhook.