Point Paper/Letter Re: Aviation Greens.

[MasterBates]

The thread on Aviation Working Greens that is up got some discussion going in Chat.

We brainstormed trying to think of the proper format for how to state the case that there are many Naval Aviators & NFO's, both active, reserve and retired that would like to see the AWG's stay as an "optional" uniform.

Without digressing into a discussion of what hat or trousers are OK, and things of that nature, what would be the best way to respectfully approach the issue. While random JOs wearing the AWGs may get awareness out there, it probably will not attract the right kind of attention with those who have the power to change it.

What I think the goal of the letter, for an end state should be, is to allow the AWG's to stay as an approved alternate uniform. Just like they are now.

Reasons to keep them:
History
Professional looking working uniform
Nobody is forced to buy/wear them. Just personal preference.

Obstacles to keeping them:
Being a working uniform, hard to justify for much else in todays Navy besides SDO.
The SWOs do not like Aviators having Aviator-Only uniforms.
Cost of maintaining full seabag. Even though it is OPTIONAL.

The thought was to write the letter to the history of the existing AWGs, observe that nobody is forced to buy them, but there are some who like them, and like having the option to wear them, and would like to keep a Naval Aviation tradition alive.

As many of you have seen, I can't write for shit.

I need ideas/help. Be it on writing, advising me on proper protocol to follow so I don't piss in someones wheaties accidentally, and so on.

 

[et1nuke]

The SWOs do not like Aviators having Aviator-Only uniforms.

Seems to me like this would be one of the reasons to keep them

In all seriousness though I'm so excited to be joining a community that actually has things to fight for. Nothing like this in the nuclear world.

 

[Rasczak]

sounds like you need this.

 

[statesman]

In all seriousness this is definitely a worthy cause.

There has been some discussion regarding a possible letter to proceedings. The question is whether or not Proceedings is the appropriate forum for such a discussion. If anyone especially more senior officers can suggest a better place for such a letter to be sent it would be much appreciated.

Right now I think the goal is to get the uniform visible, and the discussion into a more broad forum than just AW.

 

[MasterBates]

Okay, here is a ROUGH DRAFT that was written by someone using my ideas and their superior writing skills. Group effort on this one. They wish to reamain anonymous at this point.

We are going to need to talk about further uses for the uniform and further reasons for keeping them around. If we can get enough people on AW to order from the NEX such that we can claim a resurgence of the uniform and point to specific evidence that would be the best case scenario.

Add what you can, don’t worry about the diction, Ill take care of the writing but will rely heavily on you for the experience and the substance.

Keeping The AWGs

Without question the return of Service Dress Khaki has been met with thunderous applause from many officers and has even begun to make waves among the ranks of Midshipmen and Officer Candidates. The return of Service Dress Khaki will display a dedication to the strong sense of tradition held by the Naval Service. It is this sense of tradition which has prompted the authoring of this letter. However excited the entire naval community is regarding the return of Service Dress Khaki, the retirement of another historic uniform has gone almost unnoticed, save for a handful of aviators. This uniform, which many both in and outside of the aviation community don’t even know exists, dates back to the beginning of Naval Aviation and is unfortunately slated for retirement with the introduction of the new working uniform. I am referring of course to Aviation Working Greens.
Aviation Working Greens date back to 1917 six years after the inception of Naval Aviation and just four years after the introduction of the coveted brown shoes. It is only appropriate to mention the wearing of brown shoes here as it was not long ago that brown shoes were sent to the gallows, only to be resurrected nine years later. Starting in 1979 a group of determined, hard working aviators assumed the task of bringing about the return of the brown shoes. After six years of hard work and petitioning Secretary of the Navy Lehman reauthorized the wearing of brown shoes. There is an opportunity here to save Aviation Working Greens without retracing the steps of those who fought so hard to bring back brown shoes.
While the fate of Aviation Working Greens may matter little to the Navy as a whole there is a significant resurgence of interest in the uniform amongst the Aviation community. Aviation Working Green is a wonderful uniform which should
remain a part of the Aviators sea bag.....

Feel free to add on or add ideas.

 

[MrSaturn]

Reasons to keep them:
History
Professional looking working uniform
Nobody is forced to buy/wear them. Just personal preference.

Obstacles to keeping them:
Being a working uniform, hard to justify for much else in todays Navy besides SDO.
Cost of maintaining full seabag. Even though it is OPTIONAL.

These same things could be said for service dress khakis. The sea bag expense issue wouldnt seem to be a problem because there are so many other uniforms in the same category.... service dress blue yankee, tropical khakis or tropical whites. That doesnt take into account various dinner dress combinations or female skirts and etc.

You are fighting to keep an optional uniform an optional uniform... Inertia should be in your favor...

The SWOs do not like Aviators having Aviator-Only uniforms.

Watch out SWOs might fight back and get the boat cloak mandatory.

 

[statesman]

Added a few lines at the end. Separated paragraphs for ease of reading.

Without question the return of Service Dress Khaki has been met with thunderous applause from many officers and has even begun to make waves among the ranks of Midshipmen and Officer Candidates. The return of Service Dress Khaki will display a dedication to the strong sense of tradition held by the Naval Service. It is this sense of tradition which has prompted the authoring of this letter. However excited the entire naval community is regarding the return of Service Dress Khaki, the retirement of another historic uniform has gone almost unnoticed, save for a handful of aviators. This uniform, which many both in and outside of the aviation community don’t even know exists, dates back to the beginning of Naval Aviation and is unfortunately slated for retirement with the introduction of the new Navy Working Uniform. I am referring of course to Aviation Working Greens.


Aviation Working Greens date back to 1917 six years after the inception of Naval Aviation and just four years after the introduction of the coveted brown shoes. It is only appropriate to mention the wearing of brown shoes here as it was not long ago that brown shoes were sent to the gallows, only to be resurrected nine years later. Starting in 1979 a group of determined, hard working aviators assumed the task of bringing about the return of the brown shoes. After six years of hard work and petitioning Secretary of the Navy Lehman reauthorized the wearing of brown shoes. There is an opportunity here to save Aviation Working Greens without retracing the steps of those who fought so hard to bring back brown shoes.


While the fate of Aviation Working Greens may matter little to the Navy as a whole there is a significant resurgence of interest in the uniform amongst the Aviation community. Although Aviation Working Green is rarely used it should not be phased out, and should remain an optional uniform. Possible reasons wear of the uniform include but are not limited to Squadron Duty Officer. Aviation Working Green is a wonderful and versatile uniform which should remain a part of the Aviator’s Sea Bag.

 

[xj220]

In terms of functionality, you could point out how it is a darker uniform hiding dirt and grease normally associated with aviation environments a lot better than khakis can.

 

[statesman]

The only problem is the rebuttal to that might be just to use the NWU

 

[xj220]

I assume the NWU is the digi cams? If so, those aren't nearly as dressy as the greens. The thing is if you have duty or some other occasion that requires you to dress up, you want to wear something that can hide dirt, but not be a utility. Oh, anyone want to push for flight suits being a uniform item? At least let us go grocery shopping in them on the way back from base.

 

[statesman]

I assume the NWU is the digi cams? If so, those aren't nearly as dressy as the greens.

Yes NWU = new hotness BDUs

The thing is if you have duty or some other occasion that requires you to dress up, you want to wear something that can hide dirt, but not be a utility.

Very good point... probably worth mentioning in the letter

 

[Brett327]

You guys are kidding yourselves. While AWGs may be groovy, nostalgic and quaint, let's face it - nobody wears them. The last time I saw someone in AWG was 15 years ago in the VP community. It's going to be hard for you to come up with a cogent argument as to why the Navy should spend money to keep them around.

Save yourselves the trouble and find something else to spend your free time on.

BTW - for future reference, the proper format for a point paper can be found in the Navy Correspondence Manual. If you don't have one at your desk (and know how to use it), then you're a sub-par officer.

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

While I do own the Navy Correspondence Manual, it is buried somewhere in my storage unit. Since NATOPS and FTI take up pretty much all the book cases in the Puma the rest of my stuff is boxed for when I need it. Seeing that I have written 3 Naval Letters in 7 years, I don't use it too often.

Right now I am putting the feelers out for what should be said, and how it should be said. Whatever is sent would be checked for proper format, etc before it is sent.

 

[Brett327]

While I do own the Navy Correspondence Manual, it is buried somewhere in my storage unit. Since NATOPS and FTI take up pretty much all the book cases in the Puma the rest of my stuff is boxed for when I need it. Seeing that I have written 3 Naval Letters in 7 years, I don't use it too often.

Right now I am putting the feelers out for what should be said, and how it should be said. Whatever is sent would be checked for proper format, etc before it is sent.

Choose your battles - obviously not your strong suit. Are you doing this to impress Jodie Foster?

Brett

 

[Schnugg]

1917. I wonder if he had AWGs???

I do like the old style khaki jacket uniform of days past.