• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

officer retention

B

bb1125

Member
None
Ken_gone_flying said:
I don't think there is any unwillingness or feasability issues of getting people to a boat underway. We used to fly plane loads of people to the boat, all the time (which a large majority were then helo'ed off to the small boys). Obviously we flew more people to the boat during the first few days of the deployment having to get all of the squadron guys on that stayed back. However, no matter how long the boat was out, there was always a consistent flow of passenger coming off and going onto the boat. These people were FNG's out of boot camp going to the boat to report to their first command, people flying off the boat PCS'ing, people going on emergency leave, squadron maintenance guys going to resue a bird on the beach, MEDEVACS, and DV's. These are all situations where people HAVE to get on/off the ship when the boat is underway, there is no getting around it. They do try to walk these people on/off during port visits as much as possible, but it is rarely convenient to do so.
Click to expand...
Ken, MB was referring to HSL, which is COMPLTELY different from a CAG squadron. On a one bird HSL det, you usually only have two crews, three for a two bird det. It's not that the logistics of moving people isn't possible, your det just can't afford to lose anyone.
 
HeloBubba

HeloBubba

SH-2F AW
Contributor
bb1125 said:
Ken, MB was referring to HSL, which is COMPLTELY different from a CAG squadron. On a one bird HSL det, you usually only have two crews, three for a two bird det. It's not that the logistics of moving people isn't possible, your det just can't afford to lose anyone.
Click to expand...

While it is true that an HSL det can't afford to lose anyone, replacements are not difficult to come by. Just a quick message back to the squadron and a replacement is on the way no matter where the BG/ship is. This happened to a friend of mine AND my own det. My friend's deployment got moved up three months to take someone's place on a det. And we lost THREE people over the life of our det.
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
HeloBubba said:
While it is true that an HSL det can't afford to lose anyone, replacements are not difficult to come by. Just a quick message back to the squadron and a replacement is on the way no matter where the BG/ship is. This happened to a friend of mine AND my own det. My friend's deployment got moved up three months to take someone's place on a det. And we lost THREE people over the life of our det.
Click to expand...

Despite there being a glut of non-cruisers, your story doesn't necessarily apply to today. There's so many damn quals that one is supposed to have before they deploy that getting all that stuff is the hassle. If someone doesn't have all the checks in the boxes, the Det's T&R points go down and they look "unready." Then there's the added challenge of rolling a Det OpsO or worse, a Det MO or Det OIC, into the job mid-cruise. Maintainers have more flexibility, but the AWs still have lots of training reqs. just like the pilots, and they can affect T&R just as a pilot does.
 
HeloBubba

HeloBubba

SH-2F AW
Contributor
gatordev said:
Despite there being a glut of non-cruisers, your story doesn't necessarily apply to today. There's so many damn quals that one is supposed to have before they deploy that getting all that stuff is the hassle. If someone doesn't have all the checks in the boxes, the Det's T&R points go down and they look "unready." Then there's the added challenge of rolling a Det OpsO or worse, a Det MO or Det OIC, into the job mid-cruise. Maintainers have more flexibility, but the AWs still have lots of training reqs. just like the pilots, and they can affect T&R just as a pilot does.
Click to expand...

Not at all surprised that it is different today. The things I am talking about here happened in 1985. I remember the "readiness hoops" (recognition exams were my favorite). My AW friend that had his deployment moved up, was already "detted-up" and was working through his quals. I guess they figured he was the best they could do on short notice. The guy he replaced had signed his page 13. So not only was he no good to his det, but no good to the squadron once he returned either. The three guys on my det were all maintainers, an electrician, a metalsmith, and our chief (which turned out to be the most damaging change). Never heard of or saw any officers that didn't finish a det (those that didn't crash anyway).
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I gotcha. Yeah, having someone fleeted up helps, but usually there's only one or two of those.

and our chief (which turned out to be the most damaging change).
Click to expand...

I can imagine...unless the chief is less than desirable. I had that happen one week before pre-cruise. Fortunately the guy that replaced him walked on water and the world was saved.
 
BigIron

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Also making LCDR and then Department Head is no longer a given. I know several helo bubbas who will not be wearing gold oak leaves. I also see a lot of leafless VP/VQ types on my ship. That definitely effects retention. If after your second look for O-4, and you still don't pick it up, you can say goodbye to the Navy with your 10 years experience (and more if you are prior enlisted).

If you don't break out in your first tour, and/or don't do a competitive second tour, it's going to be hard these days to make LCDR and continue on. It's not always fair. Perceived super stars (who are actually worthless and couldn't find their asses with both hands and a map) get promoted, while good dudes get left on the cutting room floor. It's supply and demand.
 
P

Pags

N/A
pilot
BigIron said:
(who are actually worthless and couldn't find their asses with both hands and a map) get promoted, while good dudes get left on the cutting room floor. It's supply and demand.
Click to expand...

Only in the Navy would there be demand for these people....where do we get such men?
 
M

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Perfect example of the Dilbert Principle..

The Dilbert Principle: The most ineffective workers are systematically moved to the place where they can do the least damage -- MANAGEMENT.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
phrogpilot73 said:
I'd argue there's a bigger demand for them on this side of the fence... ;)
Click to expand...

And I would wholeheartedly agree with you! :D At least in the military you knew the landscape was going to completely change in 3 years, for better or worse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top